"Let us reason amongst the brethren"

[abelcainsbrother]

Since no evolutionists on here can demonstrate life evolves like they believe and have presented no evidence but just attacked the bible and disagreed with me and have only declared evolution true without giving any evidence to demonstrate life evolves because they can;'t.

It is time for a review about the biblical Gap theory. OK get out your bible and turn to 2nd Peter chapter 3 and we are going to start at verse 3. pay attention because you are going to see how Peter by the inspiration of God knew what people like you would believe and we now know you believe it because of what evolution teaches but here we go.

Starting with verse 3 We read "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days mockers walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers fell asleep(died),all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

OK let's stop here for now and go over this,it was predicted in the last days that mockers would come and we see it right now in these last days,you cannot deny Christians are being mocked thus this is one of many fulfilled bible prophecies happening right now in these last days.OK but it also says they are mocking while questioning the coming of Jesus which is what atheists do today they question whether Jesus even existed or not today.OK so already we can see evidence that this is a fulfilled bible prophecy,Peter by God was right,for it is happening.But there is more because evolution today teaches us that since the fathers(primates) died all things continue from the beginning of the creation,evolution teaches this,they keep life alive because they believe it evolves and so they teach there were never any full extinctions but it has continued because life evolves. OK lets move on and continue.

Verse 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:Whereby the world that then was being over flowed with water perished.

OK lets stop here and think about this Peter is telling us,no, you are wrong,all things have not continued since the beginning,you are ignorant of the former world that perished in water,Peter is telling us all life died in this flood of water that the earth was standing out and in.OK lets go on

But the heavens and earth which are now,by the same word are kept in store,reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This tells us there was a gap between the former world that perished in water that people are ignorant about today and this world we now live in.

And since there is only denials and no evidence that life evolves we need to look and see if there is evidence for a former world that existed and there is,there is evidence that the earth is very old and there are fossils that testify to a former world existing add in the coal and oil and the former world was full of life like this world is. So right now I have more evidence to prove the bible right when it tells us a former world existed that perished in water. I have evidence while you have no evidence you can present to demonstrate life evolves and so the gap theory is more believable than evolution is and I have given evidence to back it up. Notice that no evolutionists can present evidence that demonstrates life evolves and just believes it based mostly on being taught it does and intimidation to accept it..

OK right now I have already given more evidence to back up the fact a former world existed on this earth that perished but I can give even more. Ok I want you to watch National Geographic:The story of the earth. And you will see that eventhough secular scientists are looking at everything from an evolution perspective and everything coming into existence on its own without a creator they have detected this flood Peter told us about,it is kinda funny because they detect Lucifer's flood but they deny Noah's flood.

But if you watch this you will see that early in the earth's history the earth was covered with water,before any life,and before the continents rose up. OK now in Genesis 1:2 we see the earth is in a without form and void state,flooded and frozen.The whole earth is covered in water before the continents rise up and before any life we read

"And the earth was without form and void;and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Based on this the earth is covered in water. Now isn't it something that secular scientists who are not considering the bible also believe the earth was covered in water early in its beginning?OK so from Genesis 1:2-8 the earth is flooded but notice verse 9 "And Gods said,Let the waters under heaven be gathered together unto one place,and let the dry land appear;And it was so."

OK so the continents rise up out of the waters verse 10 And God called the dry land earth;and the gathering together of the waters called he called Seas,And God saw it was good.

Watch National Geographic:The story of the earth. And see secular scientists prove the bible and Genesis true without even considering what the bible tells us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsn3wpVAcjk

If you watch it further it also tells us what life came first and in what order all the way to man being last too,the only difference is scientists say the first life came in water,while the bible tells us it comes first to land,but other than that life comes in order to what science says and what Genesis says. I was amazed when I realized this because I know science is not considering the bible but looking at everything from an evolution point of view with no God needed.

OK but there is even more in this National Geographic show you will notice they bring up "Snow ball earth" and you can google it too. But it tells us that at one time the earth froze. So if we add this in we have an earth that was flooded and it was also frozen too.Now I do question the timing of it according to science but the fact is scientists have also detected that the earth was frozen at one time further evidence of Genesis.

But there is more Genesis 1:24-25 tells us "And God said,Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,and creeping thing,and the beast of the earth after his kind:and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw that it was good. OK the only thing scientists have proven is this that kinds produce after their kind,this is why flies remain flies,viruses remain viruses,bacteria remains bacteria,finches remain finches,etc this is what science has proven and demonstrated and they call it micro-evolution but it is really just variation amongst the kinds with no evolution happening,no macro evolution,no dinosaurs evolving into birds,no ape like creature evolving into a man,etc no evolution happens based on the evidence science has put forth as evidence.So the only thing they have proven is the bible and Genesis true and not life evolves.

But also there is even more science has proven that all life including plant life and animals,etc are made up of the same elements you find in the ground of the earth and also that man is star dust,star dust is constantly falling to the earth and Genesis tells us Genesis 2:7"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,and man became a living soul"Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight,and good for food;Verse 19"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field,and every fowl of the air." And yet science has proven all life is made up of the same minerals and elements you find in the ground of the earth.

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/g ... ments.html

So all life being related does not prove life evolves.It has always been God's will that we be brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[SpecialFrog]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-10/jws-dfd100405.php

If you read that article beyond the title it doesn't help your case at all.

All it says is that aves (birds) might not be therapods but a separate branch closely-related to therapods. Plus it is ten years old and therefore doesn't take a lot of recent fossils into account.

 

[SpecialFrog]

Abel, copy/pasting the same block of text repeatedly is generally considered spam.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-10/jws-dfd100405.php

If you read that article beyond the title it doesn't help your case at all.

All it says is that aves (birds) might not be therapods but a separate branch closely-related to therapods. Plus it is ten years old and therefore doesn't take a lot of recent fossils into account.

Interestingly, after I'd posted a article linked to another paper by the same author - Feduccia - Isotelus kindly corrected me and explained further on that page in the thread.

Thought I'd get that in before she corrects abelcainsbrother.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[SpecialFrog]

Greetings,


Interestingly, after I'd posted a article linked to another paper by the same author - Feduccia - Isotelus kindly corrected me and explained further on that page in the thread.

Thought I'd get that in before she corrects abelcainsbrother.

Kindest regards,

James

Thanks. So the paper is not only no help to his argument but also suspect.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Agreed, SpecialFrog.

Abel, copy/pasting the same block of text repeatedly is generally considered spam.

And going back to chanting his mantra is indicative of his inability to answer the debunking of his claims.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[abelcainsbrother]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-10/jws-dfd100405.php

If you read that article beyond the title it doesn't help your case at all.

All it says is that aves (birds) might not be therapods but a separate branch closely-related to therapods. Plus it is ten years old and therefore doesn't take a lot of recent fossils into account.

Based on the fact there is no scientific evidence that demonsrates a dinosaur could/can evolve into a bird it does help my case.Just because the scientist accepts evolution does not mean there aren't morphological differences between birds and dinosaurs.If you would keep up with science you'd know that morphological differences seem to get ignored by evolutionists just like with Neanderthals.There are morphological differences between them and man but this gets ignored because nothing can stop it,too much money is in it.This is because the fossils are not evidence for evolution,they are evidence of a former world that was full of life that perished like the bible reveals,they have nothing to do with evolution but have been made to fit into this idea that life evolves when like I have pointed out there is no evidence in science that proves or demonstrates a dinosaur can evolve into a bird.This is because fossils are not evidence for evolution but are evidence for the Gap theory.

 

[Darkprophet232]

I highly suggest that from now on, we reply to ABC with exactly the same amount of thought and intelligence he uses in his: by using pithy and snarky pictures.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Evolutionists stick their fingers in their ears and go LA,LA,LA! but not one evolutionist can prove or demonstrate life evolves as I have shown all they do is deny what I believe but have not and cannot produce evidence that proves and demonstrates life evolves,this causes anger in them,they expect me to just accept it because they do with no evidence.

They say I'm not looking at the evidence right and I need to take classes on evolution,in other words I need to be indoctrinated to accept evolution like they have been,none of the evidence used as evidence for evolution proves it or demonstrates it like I have pointed out.This is because the fossils are not really evidence for evolution,they are evidence for the former world full of life that perished like 2nd Peter 3:5-6 tells us.

Remember the Gap theory was being preached in the church before Darwin wrote his books and evolution took off. My point is this the fossils cannot be used as evidence for evolution when there is no scientific evidence that demonstrates and proves life evolves and so the Gap theory is what the fossils prove and back up,not evolution.

If a former world full of life existed on this earth that perished then fossils would be evidence for it and you all know it and since scientists cannot prove and demonstrate life evolves this rules out the fossils being used as evidence that life evolves.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

 

[abelcainsbrother]

 

[Isotelus]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-10/jws-dfd100405.php

Look! Decade-old links for you to ignore that in spite of their age refute the above article and actually show evidence of digit homology between birds and theropod dinosaurs!

http://www.pnas.org/content/96/9/5111.full
http://www.gwu.edu/~clade/bisc%20207/AvianDigitHomology05.pdf

You can also ignore how morphological evolution over time can be demonstrated by genetics! Yay!
http://labs.biology.ucsd.edu/mcginnis/Hoxmacroevoweb.pdf

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

If you read that article beyond the title it doesn't help your case at all.

All it says is that aves (birds) might not be therapods but a separate branch closely-related to therapods. Plus it is ten years old and therefore doesn't take a lot of recent fossils into account.

Based on the fact there is no scientific evidence that demonsrates a dinosaur could/can evolve into a bird it does help my case.Just because the scientist accepts evolution does not mean there aren't morphological differences between birds and dinosaurs.If you would keep up with science you'd know that morphological differences seem to get ignored by evolutionists just like with Neanderthals.There are morphological differences between them and man but this gets ignored because nothing can stop it,too much money is in it.This is because the fossils are not evidence for evolution,they are evidence of a former world that was full of life that perished like the bible reveals,they have nothing to do with evolution but have been made to fit into this idea that life evolves when like I have pointed out there is no evidence in science that proves or demonstrates a dinosaur can evolve into a bird.This is because fossils are not evidence for evolution but are evidence for the Gap theory.

As Isotelus has shown, the author's reputation has diminished in the eyes of the scientific community, and the paper has been superseded by others which disproved its claims.

And the evidence shows that, over long periods of time, the environment has resulted in morphological differences due to evolution - genetic mutations selected out by natural selection.

Fossils are not evidence for A "gap", they are evidence of both individual deaths and MANY "gaps" between various extinctions.

You've jumped about trying to fit all of them into a single "gap" - until I mentioned the last Ice Age and then grasped at that straw.

Yet I've shown that this does not fit your alleged "gap" either - both through the fact that mammoths and elephants co-existed, and that mammoths survived both your alleged "gap" and the alleged Noah's Flood.

Despite this, you continue to ignore the scientific evidence in your intellectual dishonesty.

Evolutionists stick their fingers in their ears and go LA,LA,LA! but not one evolutionist can prove or demonstrate life evolves as I have shown all they do is deny what I believe but have not and cannot produce evidence that proves and demonstrates life evolves,this causes anger in them,they expect me to just accept it because they do with no evidence.

They say I'm not looking at the evidence right and I need to take classes on evolution,in other words I need to be indoctrinated to accept evolution like they have been,none of the evidence used as evidence for evolution proves it or demonstrates it like I have pointed out.This is because the fossils are not really evidence for evolution,they are evidence for the former world full of life that perished like 2nd Peter 3:5-6 tells us.

Remember the Gap theory was being preached in the church before Darwin wrote his books and evolution took off. My point is this the fossils cannot be used as evidence for evolution when there is no scientific evidence that demonstrates and proves life evolves and so the Gap theory is what the fossils prove and back up,not evolution.

If a former world full of life existed on this earth that perished then fossils would be evidence for it and you all know it and since scientists cannot prove and demonstrate life evolves this rules out the fossils being used as evidence that life evolves.

You are simply not competent to discuss this topic with other posters here - your lack of knowledge means you cherry-pick what appears to you to be "evidence" in support of your belief when, in actual fact, it doesn't.

You accuse scientists of sticking their fingers in their ears and denying what you believe.

Which is more likely to be true?

Scientists all over the world being wrong - or you?

As I've pointed out multiple times, the "gap theory" was invented towards the end of the 18[sup]th[/sup] century to rescue YEC - nothing more.

You are a "gap YECist" - or, more simply, a YEC, as your later diagram shows:

And adding words/meanings into the bible that aren't there is "wrong" - according to you.

So, you now claim that the "gap" occurred at the last Ice Age and that "this world" is 6,000 years old?

And you still haven't addressed the Neanderthal DNA issue - nor the new one of your mammoth/elephant claim being untenable.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Gnug215]

Abel, you're just making a fool of yourself now.

It is clear that no one will learn anything from this. We won't learn anything from you (except maybe that Gap Theory Creationists are just as crazy and far-out as Young Earth Creationists), since the "evidence" your offering is feeble nonsense. And well, there's no other way to say this, but it seems you are mentally and intellectually incapable of comprehending the articles and explanations we've offered you.

It's been a rather pathetic showing for you so far, but feel free to continue, since it seems you're offering some kind of pitiful entertainment value to some of the posters here.

You are suffering from a bad case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and there seems to be no hope for you. You're even still having problems with our terribly complex quoting functions here, and with basic sentence construction, so I'm not expecting anything.

 

[keeper541]

:docpalm:

By your own claim adding anything to the Bible is wrong, and yet in this very image you are adding to the Bible. There is no "became void" or "then" in any of the translations offered here, you added that to make your claim. One translation even says the Earth was "as yet unformed". You are doing the very thing you claim is wrong just so you can sit there and demonstrate your ignorance of real science.

Please LISTEN to all the people who are trying to teach you instead of repeating easily disproved statements. Many people have been trying to show you the accumlated knowledge that supports evolution. People with backgrounds in the relevant fields of biology and a much more detailed understanding than your dribble; people with an interest in actually understanding the science instead of cherry picking facts and trying to force square pegs into round holes; basically people worth listening to. They have been unimaginably patient with you, while you ignore everything that they say and just repeat gibberish.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

By your own claim adding anything to the Bible is wrong, and yet in this very image you are adding to the Bible. There is no "became void" or "then" in any of the translations offered here, you added that to make your claim. One translation even says the Earth was "as yet unformed". You are doing the very thing you claim is wrong just so you can sit there and demonstrate your ignorance of real science.

Please LISTEN to all the people who are trying to teach you instead of repeating easily disproved statements. Many people have been trying to show you the accumlated knowledge that supports evolution. People with backgrounds in the relevant fields of biology and a much more detailed understanding than your dribble; people with an interest in actually understanding the science instead of cherry picking facts and trying to force square pegs into round holes; basically people worth listening to. They have been unimaginably patient with you, while you ignore everything that they say and just repeat gibberish.

I do not ignore the evidence posters on here have presented for evolution but it is same old evidence we know about.The fact is macro-evolution is a myth and cannot be demonstrated by any evolutionist.I wiould never add to the word of God the Gap theory was being preached before Darwin wrote his books,this seems to get skimmed over.The only evidence presented is evidence built around the idea that life evolves.Like I have said it might be convincing if you look at the evidence from an evolution perspective but there is no evidence that proves a dinosaur can evolve into a bird.

Proving that all life is related does not prove life evolves and building a evolution tree around the idea life evolves without evidence life evolves does not prove it either and yet this is the evidence evolutionists use to assume dinosaurs can evolve into birds.

All evolution is at this point in time is micro-evolution,adaptation and the assumption life evolves based on micro-evolution and adaptation this is why nobody here can produce evidence that would prove and demonsrate a dinosaur can evolve into a bird and yet everything is looked at from an evolution perspective.

All you have is micro-evolution and adaptation and all life is related as evidence,NOT macro-evolution which you cannot ignore as an evolutionist,yet you do. This is why the fossils are not evidence for evolution but are evidence for the Gap theory and a former world that existed on this earth full of life that perished.

If the Gap theory is true we should expect to find evidence for the life that existed in the former world and we do both plant life and animal life in coal and oil and fossils which is what you would expect to find and we do.We have evidence a former world existed with life that perished but we have no evidence that proves and demonsrates life evolves which I have clearly shown.

Nobody here has been able to provide evidence that would prove and demonstrate life evolves and the evidence used as evidence for evolution we all know about finches,viruses,bacteria,salamanders,fruit flies,etc proves and shows us that there are limits with the genes in life and life does not evolve even when life is able to adapt and survive hostile environments.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

I would like it pointed out to me and everyone else evidence the evolutionists on here have presented that would prove and demonstrate macro-evolution because I have looked through quite a bit of it and do not see the evidence. I don't overlook evidence either like you may think,if there was evidence that proved and demonstrated life evolves I would accept evolution,but I know there is none. But if there is evidence you think I have overlooked go ahead and present it.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

"Dragan Glas"Greetings,

If you read that article beyond the title it doesn't help your case at all.

All it says is that aves (birds) might not be therapods but a separate branch closely-related to therapods. Plus it is ten years old and therefore doesn't take a lot of recent fossils into account.

Based on the fact there is no scientific evidence that demonsrates a dinosaur could/can evolve into a bird it does help my case.Just because the scientist accepts evolution does not mean there aren't morphological differences between birds and dinosaurs.If you would keep up with science you'd know that morphological differences seem to get ignored by evolutionists just like with Neanderthals.There are morphological differences between them and man but this gets ignored because nothing can stop it,too much money is in it.This is because the fossils are not evidence for evolution,they are evidence of a former world that was full of life that perished like the bible reveals,they have nothing to do with evolution but have been made to fit into this idea that life evolves when like I have pointed out there is no evidence in science that proves or demonstrates a dinosaur can evolve into a bird.This is because fossils are not evidence for evolution but are evidence for the Gap theory.

As Isotelus has shown, the author's reputation has diminished in the eyes of the scientific community, and the paper has been superseded by others which disproved its claims.

And the evidence shows that, over long periods of time, the environment has resulted in morphological differences due to evolution - genetic mutations selected out by natural selection.

Yes it backs up my point that morphological differences are ignored by evolutionists.Also there is no evidence that proves the environment causes morphological differences due to evolution as I have pointed out.The evidence evolutionists has proves that environmental hazards still do not cause life to evolve or change morphologically despite hostile environments.We see this with finches,viruses,bacteria,fruit flies,salamanders,etc no matter how hostile the environment is even when life can adapt to survive?It still does not evolve,this is what the evidence shows us and yet you and others assume for no reason based on the evidence.

Fossils are not evidence for A "gap", they are evidence of both individual deaths and MANY "gaps" between various extinctions.

You've jumped about trying to fit all of them into a single "gap" - until I mentioned the last Ice Age and then grasped at that straw.

Yet I've shown that this does not fit your alleged "gap" either - both through the fact that mammoths and elephants co-existed, and that mammoths survived both your alleged "gap" and the alleged Noah's Flood.

Despite this, you continue to ignore the scientific evidence in your intellectual dishonesty.

Yes fossils are evidence for a former world that existed on this earth full of life that perished especially since there is no evidence that life evolves,you keep ignoring this fact. No there were not many gaps according to evolution,evolution teaches that there have never been full extinctions which is the point of 2nd Peter 3:3-7 which I have shown.It is from doing research that I've come to realize that the former world fully perished at the time of the last ice age because of dust in the ice cores from all around the earth and in the oceans,etc.

Evolutionists stick their fingers in their ears and go LA,LA,LA! but not one evolutionist can prove or demonstrate life evolves as I have shown all they do is deny what I believe but have not and cannot produce evidence that proves and demonstrates life evolves,this causes anger in them,they expect me to just accept it because they do with no evidence.

They say I'm not looking at the evidence right and I need to take classes on evolution,in other words I need to be indoctrinated to accept evolution like they have been,none of the evidence used as evidence for evolution proves it or demonstrates it like I have pointed out.This is because the fossils are not really evidence for evolution,they are evidence for the former world full of life that perished like 2nd Peter 3:5-6 tells us.

Remember the Gap theory was being preached in the church before Darwin wrote his books and evolution took off. My point is this the fossils cannot be used as evidence for evolution when there is no scientific evidence that demonstrates and proves life evolves and so the Gap theory is what the fossils prove and back up,not evolution.

If a former world full of life existed on this earth that perished then fossils would be evidence for it and you all know it and since scientists cannot prove and demonstrate life evolves this rules out the fossils being used as evidence that life evolves.

You are simply not competent to discuss this topic with other posters here - your lack of knowledge means you cherry-pick what appears to you to be "evidence" in support of your belief when, in actual fact, it doesn't.

You accuse scientists of sticking their fingers in their ears and denying what you believe.

Which is more likely to be true?

Scientists all over the world being wrong - or you?

As I've pointed out multiple times, the "gap theory" was invented towards the end of the 18[sup]th[/sup] century to rescue YEC - nothing more.

You are a "gap YECist" - or, more simply, a YEC, as your later diagram shows:

And adding words/meanings into the bible that aren't there is "wrong" - according to you.

So, you now claim that the "gap" occurred at the last Ice Age and that "this world" is 6,000 years old?

And you still haven't addressed the Neanderthal DNA issue - nor the new one of your mammoth/elephant claim being untenable.

Even if you believe it was invented by young earth creationists that means nothing because the Gap theory has been in the church atleast 500 years long before modern geology made their discoveries and the Gap theory was being preached in the church before evolution became so popular.It was before evolution science that we know about today.The fact is the evidence of an old earth,fossils,coal and oil were hijacked by evolutionists away from the Gap theory.

You just don't understand the Gap theory because the Gap theory teaches THIS world we live in now is about 6-10,000 years old,however the former world that existed cannot be overlooked especially when we have evidence a former world full of life existed that perished until this world was created,in other words the former world was created billions of years ago and it was full of life until that world perished and all life in it went extinct. And we have evidence for this,we have evidence that the heavens and earth are very old and we have fossils,coal and oil as evidence that proves and confirms the former world was full of life until it perished.

We also have evidence of these ancient mysterious cities/structures that exist around this earth and I have given some evidence to back this up,it does not prove it wrong to show that man is able to move them,etc and it proves evolution wrong about man being dumb out of Africa because these structures prove whoever built these had a lot of knowledge and were not dumb hunter,gatherers out of Africa that evolution has taught us,evolution even effects history,eventhough there is no evidence that life evolves. Neanderthals have nothing to do with the Gap theory.

 

[Prolescum]

Repetition (Noun):
The ability to make something true by sheer force of will.

Sent from my Commodore 64

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Genesis 1:24-25 tells us "And God said,Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,and creeping thing,and the beast of the earth after his kind:and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw that it was good. OK the only thing scientists have proven is this that kinds produce after their kind.

Something that I overlooked about the Gap theory that needs to be pointed out.Notice God created the creature after his kind,and creeping thing,and the beast of the earth after his kind:and it was so. This is a hint to the life that existed in the former world because God created the creatures in this world after the creatures that were in the former world. And if we look at the fossils through a Gap theory point of view instead of an evolution point of view,we can see evidence for this.Which is why there can be similarities.Stop looking at them from an evolution perspective from now on.