"Let the states decide!"

[ArthurWilborn]

They'll take their freedom --15 hour/7 days a week -- job, freedom stick shelter, freedom scrap food, and their tattered rags of freedom over any social structure. We'll just stick to calling that "life style" for what it really is though...Slavery.

How does it feel to be wrong all the time? Does it hurt? :roll:

 

[televator]

How does it feel to be wrong all the time? Does it hurt? :roll:

Freedom indignation at play.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

How does it feel to be wrong all the time? Does it hurt? :roll:

Freedom indignation at play.

Uh-huh.

Well, you were backing up Joe's statement about seizing private industry and giving it to others. Care to give an example of a time where that actually benefited the public?

 

[kenandkids]

Well, you were backing up Joe's statement about seizing private industry and giving it to others. Care to give an example of a time where that actually benefited the public?

Look at every nation that has a government run healthcare program. The benefits are many, including longer lifespans, less cost, more routine care, etc.. Look at nations that own their own oil rights, the money goes to supporting the citizens.

Now look at nations too stupid to see this, namely ours. The only benefits in private ownership of healthcare companies is that some people become billionaires while the majority pay a third of their income for poor quality care and often just get kicked off of it when sick or needy. Look at our idiot system of allowing private companies to rape our land and our people all to make billions of dollars in profit each quarter while also getting free billions from tax breaks and subsidies.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Look at every nation that has a government run healthcare program. The benefits are many, including longer lifespans, less cost, more routine care, etc.. Look at nations that own their own oil rights, the money goes to supporting the citizens.

Now look at nations too stupid to see this, namely ours. The only benefits in private ownership of healthcare companies is that some people become billionaires while the majority pay a third of their income for poor quality care and often just get kicked off of it when sick or needy. Look at our idiot system of allowing private companies to rape our land and our people all to make billions of dollars in profit each quarter while also getting free billions from tax breaks and subsidies.

Yeah, but those are facts. Right-wingers don't need facts, their cult tells them that everything will be fine as soon as we go back to a feudal system where our liberties are handed to us by the landed gentry, and getting a say is reserved for the "deserving" people who inherited their wealth.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Well, you were backing up Joe's statement about seizing private industry and giving it to others. Care to give an example of a time where that actually benefited the public?

Look at every nation that has a government run healthcare program. The benefits are many, including longer lifespans, less cost, more routine care, etc.. Look at nations that own their own oil rights, the money goes to supporting the citizens.

Now look at nations too stupid to see this, namely ours. The only benefits in private ownership of healthcare companies is that some people become billionaires while the majority pay a third of their income for poor quality care and often just get kicked off of it when sick or needy. Look at our idiot system of allowing private companies to rape our land and our people all to make billions of dollars in profit each quarter while also getting free billions from tax breaks and subsidies.

... That's not even close to what I was talking about. Shouldn't you be busy taking a remedial math class right about now? :lol: Like I'd trust any estimate you relate without some numbers to back it up.

Anyway, Joe was advocating something like a Cuba-like seizure of industry - anything on that line?

 

[televator]

Uh-huh.

Well, you were backing up Joe's statement about seizing private industry and giving it to others. Care to give an example of a time where that actually benefited the public?

Go back and read the whole conversation from the comment that spawned it. I was "backing up" how misguided this application (as suggested by Impiku) of decentralization was. Your straw man is leading into a completely different conversation that neither I or Joe were having.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Uh-huh.

Well, you were backing up Joe's statement about seizing private industry and giving it to others. Care to give an example of a time where that actually benefited the public?

Go back and read the whole conversation from the comment that spawned it. I was "backing up" how misguided this application (as suggested by Impiku) of decentralization was. Your straw man is leading into a completely different conversation.

He was suggesting decentralization of government. I have no idea you get from that to "Then we'll break up Walmart and give each store to its employees!", but I've learned not to question Joe's leaps of illogic.

But, yeah, Impaku had a good point that advocates of big central governments seem to miss - a big central government can also pass stupid laws, and the stupidity gets applied to more people with more force. If you want to talk about that we could.

 

[televator]

He was suggesting decentralization of government. I have no idea you get from that to "Then we'll break up Walmart and give each store to its employees!", but I've learned not to question Joe's leaps of illogic.

But, yeah, Impaku had a good point that advocates of big central governments seem to miss - a big central government can also pass stupid laws, and the stupidity gets applied to more people with more force. If you want to talk about that we could.

Just to clarify... I disagree with Impiku as did Joe. I backed him up by elaborating on how it would be a good idea on "your side" to neuter government while at the same time allowing corporations to continue growing into these, too big to fail/sue/regulate/be beneficial to the human race monstrosities.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

He was suggesting decentralization of government. I have no idea you get from that to "Then we'll break up Walmart and give each store to its employees!", but I've learned not to question Joe's leaps of illogic.

But, yeah, Impaku had a good point that advocates of big central governments seem to miss - a big central government can also pass stupid laws, and the stupidity gets applied to more people with more force. If you want to talk about that we could.

Just to clarify... I disagree with Impiku as did Joe. I backed him up by elaborating on how it would be a good idea on "your side" to neuter government while at the same time allowing corporations to continue growing into these, too big to fail/sue/regulate/be beneficial to the human race monstrosities.

They tend to grow that way because they're getting government support. These corporations were big enough to convince congress to pocket their debt instead of failing as they well should have; if you recall. I'll repeat - a big government can make big, bad decisions.

 

[kenandkids]

... That's not even close to what I was talking about. Shouldn't you be busy taking a remedial math class right about now? Like I'd trust any estimate you relate without some numbers to back it up.

Anyway, Joe was advocating something like a Cuba-like seizure of industry - anything on that line?

While personal insults are nearly the only thing that the [wrong] has to offer, I expected slightly (very slightly) more form you. Exactly what numbers do you feel are wrong? Because EVERY comparison done for two decades shows that government health systems costs less and has better results from diagnosis to life/survival expectancy. Or perhaps it's the oil comparison you contest, which your beloved freakshow Palin in Alaska to pretty well every other society has taken similar or more societal ownership has shown great benefits to society.

But please, keep with insults. It demonstrates your side's only platform quite well.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Just to clarify... I disagree with Impiku as did Joe. I backed him up by elaborating on how it would be a good idea on "your side" to neuter government while at the same time allowing corporations to continue growing into these, too big to fail/sue/regulate/be beneficial to the human race monstrosities.

Right. And I was pointing out the utter stupidity of the position of being against decentralized government power while being all for centralized economic power, as though economic power isn't a greater threat to real freedom.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

... That's not even close to what I was talking about. Shouldn't you be busy taking a remedial math class right about now? Like I'd trust any estimate you relate without some numbers to back it up.

Anyway, Joe was advocating something like a Cuba-like seizure of industry - anything on that line?

While personal insults are nearly the only thing that the [wrong] has to offer, I expected slightly (very slightly) more form you. Exactly what numbers do you feel are wrong? Because EVERY comparison done for two decades shows that government health systems costs less and has better results from diagnosis to life/survival expectancy. Or perhaps it's the oil comparison you contest, which your beloved freakshow Palin in Alaska to pretty well every other society has taken similar or more societal ownership has shown great benefits to society.

But please, keep with insults. It demonstrates your side's only platform quite well.

Man, listen to yourself. You try to cast yourself as the victim of insult while offering insult in the same sentence. I was nailing you over a personal error you'd made, repeatedly, and still haven't had the decency to cop to. Break out a mirror, man.

Again, got anything on 1) government seizure of private industry (Cuba-style) and when it's actually benefited the public or 2) big governments make bigger, meaner mistakes?

 

[kenandkids]

Man, listen to yourself. You try to cast yourself as the victim of insult while offering insult in the same sentence. I was nailing you over a personal error you'd made, repeatedly, and still haven't had the decency to cop to. Break out a mirror, man.

Again, got anything on 1) government seizure of private industry (Cuba-style) and when it's actually benefited the public or 2) big governments make bigger, meaner mistakes?

What error is that, exactly? From your "remedial math" quip I'll assume it has something to do with numbers... Since pretty near everyone here has shown your numbers and evaluations to be quite flawed, perhaps we can take that class together, I'll be happy to help you when you get stuck.
So since you say you mean only "Cuba style" government takeovers, if I provide those are you going to insist you meant only "cuba style takeovers by bearded men with a mole on their index knuckle?"

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Man, listen to yourself. You try to cast yourself as the victim of insult while offering insult in the same sentence. I was nailing you over a personal error you'd made, repeatedly, and still haven't had the decency to cop to. Break out a mirror, man.

Again, got anything on 1) government seizure of private industry (Cuba-style) and when it's actually benefited the public or 2) big governments make bigger, meaner mistakes?

What error is that, exactly? From your "remedial math" quip I'll assume it has something to do with numbers... Since pretty near everyone here has shown your numbers and evaluations to be quite flawed, perhaps we can take that class together, I'll be happy to help you when you get stuck.
So since you say you mean only "Cuba style" government takeovers, if I provide those are you going to insist you meant only "cuba style takeovers by bearded men with a mole on their index knuckle?"

I believe ArthurWilborn has latched onto the quib about decentralization like a Lamprey and is trying to suck it dry - but is merely getting a mouthful of straw.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Man, listen to yourself. You try to cast yourself as the victim of insult while offering insult in the same sentence. I was nailing you over a personal error you'd made, repeatedly, and still haven't had the decency to cop to. Break out a mirror, man.

Again, got anything on 1) government seizure of private industry (Cuba-style) and when it's actually benefited the public or 2) big governments make bigger, meaner mistakes?

What error is that, exactly?

And now your memory is faulty.

http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=119045#p119045

 

[kenandkids]

And now your memory is faulty.

http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=119045#p119045

Oh... riiigghht. The place where you made up number and percentages in some weird kind of attempt at a gotcha. You teathugs have some real issues with math and reality...

Hundreds (let's say 500) CEOs making tens of millions (50 million, let's say) would raise the average American salary by ... about $80. Even at the upper bound of your estimate it would be an increase of about $300, or about 1%.

How about we don't say that and you stop pretending that your made up numbers actually matter or that some one else is wrong because you made up some numbers.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

And now your memory is faulty.

http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=119045#p119045

Oh... riiigghht. The place where you made up number and percentages in some weird kind of attempt at a gotcha. You teathugs have some real issues with math and reality...

Hundreds (let's say 500) CEOs making tens of millions (50 million, let's say) would raise the average American salary by ... about $80. Even at the upper bound of your estimate it would be an increase of about $300, or about 1%.

How about we don't say that and you stop pretending that your made up numbers actually matter or that some one else is wrong because you made up some numbers.

They were your numbers. :roll:

Hundreds of CEOS make many tens of millions per year

 

[kenandkids]

They were your numbers.

Sometimes I wonder if teathuglicans are issued home lobotomy kits, how else would someone make up numbers and then blame someone else for the numbers that they made up.

Hundreds =/= 500 and many tens =/= 50. Because I said the "many" terms does not mean that I claimed 50 or 500. YOU made those up.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

They were your numbers.

Sometimes I wonder if teathuglicans are issued home lobotomy kits, how else would someone make up numbers and then blame someone else for the numbers that they made up.

Hundreds =/= 500 and many tens =/= 50. Because I said the "many" terms does not mean that I claimed 50 or 500. YOU made those up.

... You're awfully literal minded, hmm?

This is why I included the upper bound. The upper bound represents the best possible case for your estimate, at the upper limit of "hundreds" and "tens". Even in your best case scenario - farther then what I would deem plausible, but still top of your estimate - there still would not be a significant effect.

If you think there is a significant effect, you do the math. It's not hard - 5th grade material. Put up or stop claiming that I don't understand when the lack of understanding is so clearly yours.