League of Treason

[lrkun]

youtube user asheistheraven, I think that clears that up

Right on to your question, which I already answered. A so good "spokespoerson" or "Leader" should at least listen and show he is listening. Also if you want further evidence of my not being a sock puppet I am sure an admin woudl be happy to show you my IP address. I'm sure I can trust you not to abuse it . Now can I get on with my input without the pointless accusations?

Thunderf00t is neither a leader nor a spokesperson. He's a youtube user, passionately sharing his knowledge, opinion, and belief. If you think he's a spokeperson, maybe it's because he is very popular, and yes I'm partial on his side. Nevertheless, he's still prone to making decisions which you may not agree on, I'm sure TF, as a man, chose to do so consciously.

Despite how valid or not your contention or position is, the best way to deal with it is to talk to Thunderf00t personally and voice out your opinion. Just keep sending private messages, and if you're brave, do so on LOR TV, but seriously though, don't you wish to spend your time with something more benefit to yourself or community, like concentrating on your work for example.

 

[lrkun]

Sweet crispy FUCK, what the hell is your point then?

Never mind, I don't really give a shit about anything you have to say. I'm sure you think that I'm against freedom of speech for thinking that your speech is all fucking worthless, but I can live with that.

Keep calm sir. When you loose control, Jesus rises on the third day. ^^,

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

Thunderf00t is neither a leader nor a spokesperson.

Interesting statement. One has to understand the psychology of YouTube to truly dissect the meaning of the term "leader" or "Spokes person", you're entering a new realm of pshycholgy, and there are many who would claim not to be "followers" and yes you'd have a hard time proving otherwise. YouTUbe doesn't work on simple premises

But when you say "I will put my life on the line" in definite terms (which is rich coming from the safety of your living room), those powerful words alone resonate deeper than most

 

[pendulousphallus]

Thunderf00t is neither a leader nor a spokesperson.

Interesting statement. One has to understand the psychology of YouTube to truly dissect the meaning of the term "leader" or "Spokes person", you're entering a new realm of pshycholgy, and there are many who would claim not to be "followers" and yes you'd have a hard time proving otherwise. YouTUbe doesn't work on simple premises

But when you say "I will put my life on the line" in definite terms (which is rich coming from the safety of your living room), those powerful words alone resonate deeper than most

Either a troll or a psuedointellectual clown who's read a few books and heard a few clever lines and likes to wildly extropolate.

"One has to understand the psychology of YouTube..."

:lol:

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

Wow, this word troll gets around a bit. Usually, I find, from the angry, the ignorant and the Intellectually dishonest

I am not troll, and in my last post in philosophy, I'm not a psychologist, though I did minor in it, so yes I did read a fair few clever books on the topic. MY understanding on the topic is limited I will admit, but so far as to be limited into the effect of the media on society. My profession is an Animator, so I know a bit on how to use memes to make an impact.

So, sir slayer of so called trolls, prove me wrong. Lets see if you have an other "reasonable" or even "educated" answers to debunk what I have just said. I thought this was the league of reason, not the "League of we who call people trolls when we can't debunk them", which would be quite a mouthful. If you though thtis to be the case, then I suggest you find another forum, as there are more reasonable people than you here.

I think what the real issue is here is that I am slower to frustration than you

 

[Gnug215]

Wow, this word troll gets around a bit. Usually, I find, from the angry, the ignorant and the Intellectually dishonest

I am not troll, and in my last post in philosophy, I'm not a psychologist, though I did minor in it, so yes I did read a fair few clever books on the topic. MY understanding on the topic is limited I will admit, but so far as to be limited into the effect of the media on society. My profession is an Animator, so I know a bit on how to use memes to make an impact.

So, sir slayer of so called trolls, prove me wrong. Lets see if you have an other "reasonable" or even "educated" answers to debunk what I have just said. I thought this was the league of reason, not the "League of we who call people trolls when we can't debunk them", which would be quite a mouthful. If you though thtis to be the case, then I suggest you find another forum, as there are more reasonable people than you here.

I think what the real issue is here is that I am slower to frustration than you

This is indeed the League of Reason, but that doesn't mean people here can't be unreasonable and other fun things.

The word "troll" gets thrown around a lot, yes. Too much. It's basically lost all proper meaning now.

As to the issue at hand, I think the disagreement over whether Thunderf00t is a "leader" or "spokesperson" is semantic in nature. TF is not elected by any organization to represent or lead anyone or anything, but his position on YouTube, in terms of subs and exposure, makes him a leading force. I assume many people DO follow what he says, but many of his subs probably also do not. Especially as of late, with the DMD thing, for instance.
The prevailing idea I get in these forums in that regard is something like "TF makes good science/pwnage vids, but his latest stuff is..."

Does that mean this site should openly announce that it disagrees with TF? Should AW write a blogpost or announcement on the mainpage outlining the position of LoR?
If he did, would he be speaking on behalf of all the members here?

The "problem" as I see it is the lack of organizational structure. It's not actually a problem, becuase this place was never meant to be an organization with a structure. The same with the so-called YouTube Atheist Community. There is no structure, there are no leaders. There are no cat-herders, but there is a huge-ass field where a lot of cats are running around on. Sometimes a big number of them want to do some of the same things.

The "problem" then, is in reality that many outsiders are attacking this "organization" that is supposed to exist - but doesn't. Funnily enough, even insiders are attacking it. Atheists are criticising the atheist community on YouTube, which they claim is a community simply by way of the some atheists being present on YouTube - so those same criticising atheists are a part of the very community they're criticising according to the definition of the Youtube Atheist Community that they seem to be using.

I seem to have rambled on for a bit, and I may be addressing someone who doesn't even disagree with this. Anyway... I hope it clarified some things.

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

It's that very term "atheist community", it's an oxymoron. I recently got attacked for not "banding" with a set of ideals I just couldn't agree with. Whilst criticism of my stance is welcome, attacks are not invective of a "community spirit". However I do feel that if we continue to make videos criticizing, Christians for not criticizing their own who are we to attack those who criticize or even demand the same people to who make those demands, do the same? I have oft heard Thunderfoot and others I will not mention of decry moderates for not doing what they refuse to do themselves, then criticize atheist "moderates" for doing exactly what they demand Religious moderates do. You see the problem?

 

[lrkun]

It's that very term "atheist community", it's an oxymoron. I recently got attacked for not "banding" with a set of ideals I just couldn't agree with. Whilst criticism of my stance is welcome, attacks are not invective of a "community spirit". However I do feel that if we continue to make videos criticizing, Christians for not criticizing their own who are we to attack those who criticize or even demand the same people to who make those demands, do the same? I have oft heard Thunderfoot and others I will not mention of decry moderates for not doing what they refuse to do themselves, then criticize atheist "moderates" for doing exactly what they demand Religious moderates do. You see the problem?

It can be observed that most people will always have diverging views on different issues. A will side with Z, B will side with Z, C will side with Y, D will side with Y, E will side with both, and F will side with none.

How do you view your actions? Is it reasonable? Try to view it from atleast three sides. Your point of view, the oppositions, and those that are watching as a third person. In doing so, you'll come to understand atleast a little bit of the reality that surrounds you.

Besides, if some people don't wish to agree with you, are you going to force them? Is it not more reasonable to show an alternative rather than pout and point fingers of accusation?

If Thunderf00t does not come to par with your ideals, why not lead via example, rather than wasting your time here.

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

One thing I try to do is recognize the unreasonable in my reason. I fail badly, but am quicker when people make an active civil attempt to correct me.

why not lead by example than wasting my time here? Sorry I thought I was giving an example by bothering to post here. Other than posting here and my YT channel what else do you expect from me? Oh and don't preach to me about example, I've been doing things by example in places you wouldn't dare set foot at risk to my own life.

 

[lrkun]

One thing I try to do is recognize the unreasonable in my reason. I fail badly, but am quicker when people make an active civil attempt to correct me.

why not lead by example than wasting my time here? Sorry I thought I was giving an example by bothering to post here. Other than posting here and my YT channel what else do you expect from me? Oh and don't preach to me about example, I've been doing things by example in places you wouldn't dare set foot at risk to my own life.

I see error in your approach, hence I try to correct it. Now who are you to say otherwise? Will you censor me? If you don't like hearing the truth, then I guess you're being a hypocryte.

The only reasonable motive you have in doing that which you're pursuing right now is to produce conflict between members of the forum and lead a mob against Thunderf00t or try to produce enmity between him and his friends.

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

One thing I try to do is recognize the unreasonable in my reason. I fail badly, but am quicker when people make an active civil attempt to correct me.

why not lead by example than wasting my time here? Sorry I thought I was giving an example by bothering to post here. Other than posting here and my YT channel what else do you expect from me? Oh and don't preach to me about example, I've been doing things by example in places you wouldn't dare set foot at risk to my own life.

I see error in your approach, hence I try to correct it. Now who are you to say otherwise? Will you censor me? If you don't like hearing the truth, then I guess you're being a hypocryte.

The only reasonable motive you have in doing that which you're pursuing right now is to produce conflict between members of the forum and lead a mob against Thunderf00t or try to produce enmity between him and his friends.

Why would I censor you? All I am telling you is not to preach to me about what I do or don't do without a frame of reference.

Now on to your second accusation. I have been nothing but cordial to you and to everyone else who has been nothing but rude to me. I am so very sorry that your ego cannot take a little, distension, now and again. Exactly where have I demanded you fight each other, when it was me who said "so lets put our card on the table and see what the problem is"

And as ever you keep on this "Hate the forums" BS when that was already dealt with as a none argument

 

[lrkun]

Why would I censor you? All I am telling you is not to preach to me about what I do or don't do without a frame of reference.

Now on to your second accusation. I have been nothing but cordial to you and to everyone else who has been nothing but rude to me. I am so very sorry that your ego cannot take a little, distension, now and again. Exactly where have I demanded you fight each other, when it was me who said "so lets put our card on the table and see what the problem is"

And as ever you keep on this "Hate the forums" BS when that was already dealt with as a none argument

My only intent is to correct your current actions. Of course you wouldn't admit your intentions or alterior motives or else it would be to your prejudice.

 

[Gnug215]

It's that very term "atheist community", it's an oxymoron. I recently got attacked for not "banding" with a set of ideals I just couldn't agree with. Whilst criticism of my stance is welcome, attacks are not invective of a "community spirit". However I do feel that if we continue to make videos criticizing, Christians for not criticizing their own who are we to attack those who criticize or even demand the same people to who make those demands, do the same? I have oft heard Thunderfoot and others I will not mention of decry moderates for not doing what they refuse to do themselves, then criticize atheist "moderates" for doing exactly what they demand Religious moderates do. You see the problem?

Well, supposedly Christians are an actual group with specific tenets and such - granted, that's not entirely the case in actuality, but they are still going to have way more in common than atheists, which will by definition only have one thing in common.

And we DO indeed see many atheists in the community criticising each other. In my opinion, there has been too much of it, really. Way too much drama, not enough substance and calm debate.

At any rate, this site has no obligation to openly criticise anyone, because this isn't a unified community. A Christian congregation might rally behind its pastor for some message, but we're not that kind of organization. We AREN'T an organization - that's the "problem".

So, there is no treason, there is no obligation for us, there is no spokesperson or leader. This is an open forum, and that's all, really.

... consequently, I don't get the criticism in that video or elsewhere.

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

Largely because it's not aimed at the forum but a group of individuals, and I think that's what everyone is missing

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

My only intent is to correct your current actions. Of course you wouldn't admit your intentions or alterior motives or else it would be to your prejudice.

I can't help you with your particular type of paranoia, then I am sorry. You'll just have to keep believing what you choose till you learn the ability to do so otherwise

 

[Gnug215]

Largely because it's not aimed at the forum but a group of individuals, and I think that's what everyone is missing

But the criticism is presented as being against a group, against "The League of Reason/Treason".

If the guy knows about the distinction between the two, why is he not actually making it?

 

[lrkun]

My only intent is to correct your current actions. Of course you wouldn't admit your intentions or alterior motives or else it would be to your prejudice.

I can't help you with your particular type of paranoia, then I am sorry. You'll just have to keep believing what you choose till you learn the ability to do so otherwise

Nice reply, but it really applies to your situation.

 

[lrkun]

Largely because it's not aimed at the forum but a group of individuals, and I think that's what everyone is missing

But the criticism is presented as being against a group, against "The League of Reason/Treason".

If the guy knows about the distinction between the two, why is he not actually making it?

Maybe, because he deliberately did not make a distinction, or maybe, because he is not familiar with what this forum is all about, or maybe, because he wants attention. Hehe

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

Or maybe because you didn't actually listen to the words

 

[AsheIsTheRaven]

Nice reply, but it really applies to your situation.

*pat pat* if you say so, now tell me about your childhood