John Paul II Fraud

[Nemesiah]

Only got a minute but:

In my country there was this confirmed child rapist called Marcial Maciel, he created a ultra right branch of catholics knonw as "Legionarios de Cristo", "Christ's legionaires" (Ironic since it was probably roman legionaires who nailed jc); any way it is known (yet ignored or rationalized) that JP II knew of this and used his power and influence to cover for this fiend, many books are comming out about it and "oficial" documents seem to be in the hads of the writers writing these books.

I understand that the whole JP II charade is a PR stunt so a fucker everyone knows will start to perform miracles left and right with the hope it increases the vatican's popularity and coffers but still seems a bit idiotic to make this guy (as "dirty" as he is) the poster boy of this religion.

What do you think about the whole JP II craze that is going around?

 

[Prolescum]

What do you think about the whole JP II craze that is going around?

Predictable.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

On topic:
They just want to be able to put an effigy of the most popular pope in history in the Vatican, methinks - but you're not allowed to glorify a mere human. So, make him a Saint.

Off topic:
Why does it matter? World leaders have done much worse. He, at the very least, released an apology for the churches actions in the Dark Ages and successfully at least PARTIALLY admitted that Evolution could have probably happened.
He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

 

[Prolescum]

Why does it matter? World leaders have done much worse. He, at the very least, released an apology for the churches actions in the Dark Ages and successfully at least PARTIALLY admitted that Evolution could have probably happened.
He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_John_Paul_II

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

*Awesome News*

Thanks, Prole.

 

[Pennies for Thoughts]

I can't quell the feeling that Pope Rat is paving the way for his own beatification. The history of sainted Popes, of which Pope John-Paul-Dunderhead is only the latest, is checkered indeed.

AIX-EN-PROVENCE, France (AP) , A French nun says she felt new inner strength and vitality as her Parkinson's disease suddenly disappeared in 2005 , a recovery the Vatican attributes to the miraculous intercession of Pope John Paul II.

Once again I find myself lost in the miasma of Catholic polytheism. They've got Trinities where 1+1+1=1, they've got angles, they've got a goddess (Mary), apostles, devils, and saints, and they pray to all of them except the devils, possibly. But the real stumper in this one is how Sister Lostcause could pray to a mortal -- JP-II isn't a saint yet -- and have her anything cured? Praying to mortals works in their religion?

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I can't quell the feeling that Pope Rat is paving the way for his own beatification. The history of sainted Popes, of which Pope John-Paul-Dunderhead is only the latest, is checkered indeed.

AIX-EN-PROVENCE, France (AP) , A French nun says she felt new inner strength and vitality as her Parkinson's disease suddenly disappeared in 2005 , a recovery the Vatican attributes to the miraculous intercession of Pope John Paul II.

Once again I find myself lost in the miasma of Catholic polytheism. They've got Trinities where 1+1+1=1, they've got angles, they've got a goddess (Mary), apostles, devils, and saints, and they pray to all of them except the devils, possibly. But the real stumper in this one is how Sister Lostcause could pray to a mortal -- JP-II isn't a saint yet -- and have her anything cured? Praying to mortals works in their religion?

Sainthood is merely a recognition of the Church - it is not an adornment of power.

To become a Saint, you are supposed to be able to have performed miracles while alive, and (as proof of true Sainthood) to interact with the Earth after death and perform miracles then, too.
*facedesk*

 

[Nemesiah]

On topic:
They just want to be able to put an effigy of the most popular pope in history in the Vatican, methinks - but you're not allowed to glorify a mere human. So, make him a Saint.

Off topic:
Why does it matter? World leaders have done much worse. He, at the very least, released an apology for the churches actions in the Dark Ages and successfully at least PARTIALLY admitted that Evolution could have probably happened.
He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

I'm not whining, I'm explaining that the catholic church is making the enabler of a child rapist (acording to some reporters in my country) a (dont know the word sorry, pre-saint?). It is on their part incredibly dishonest at the same time that it is incredibly risky and could blow up on their face. He may not be the worst pope but IMO he was not a "good" pope.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

On topic:
They just want to be able to put an effigy of the most popular pope in history in the Vatican, methinks - but you're not allowed to glorify a mere human. So, make him a Saint.

Off topic:
Why does it matter? World leaders have done much worse. He, at the very least, released an apology for the churches actions in the Dark Ages and successfully at least PARTIALLY admitted that Evolution could have probably happened.
He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

I'm not whining, I'm explaining that the catholic church is making the enabler of a child rapist (acording to some reporters in my country) a (dont know the word sorry, pre-saint?). It is on their part incredibly dishonest at the same time that it is incredibly risky and could blow up on their face. He may not be the worst pope but IMO he was not a "good" pope.

You find me a "Good" Pope, and I'll find you a man skilled in the art of politics.

He has done less-despicable things than the rest of them, and basically bumped forward into, at the very minimum, a society more-likely to accept the Theory of Evolution.

BTW Sauce for your claims, please? I'd like to read this article myself.

 

[Pennies for Thoughts]

Sainthood is merely a recognition of the Church - it is not an adornment of power.

Catholics pray to saints and give them special powers, like Jude and lost causes and some other one I forgot who's supposed to know where you lost your car keys. Surely answering prayers and performing miracles requires godlike powers, making beatification an adornment of power, if you will.

Saints are the equivalent of the demigods of old are they not? They're more transcendental than honored people like, say, British knights or Hall of Famers.

 

[Nemesiah]

Who was marcial Maciel:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel#La_Legi.C3.B3n_durante_el_pontificado_de_Juan_Pablo_II

News about the popes knowledge of Marcial,´s crimes

http://www.radioformula.com.mx/notas.asp?Idn=170704

http://www.educacioncontracorriente.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22602:juan-pablo-segundo-sabia-que-marcial-maciel-era-un-criminal-jose-barba-&catid=16:noticias

This is the letter sent to JP II about said abuses

http://www.pepe-rodriguez.com/Sexo_clero/Casos/Sexo_clero_M_Maciel_Leg_pedof_denuncia_Papa.htm

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Sainthood is merely a recognition of the Church - it is not an adornment of power.

Catholics pray to saints and give them special powers, like Jude and lost causes and some other one I forgot who's supposed to know where you lost your car keys. Surely answering prayers and performing miracles requires godlike powers, making beatification an adornment of power, if you will.

Saints are the equivalent of the demigods of old are they not? They're more transcendental than honored people like, say, British knights or Hall of Famers.

I would say that it is more like a Black Belt in Martial Arts.

 

[Pennies for Thoughts]

I would say that it is more like a Black Belt in Martial Arts.

Then I would, if you'll allow, say that you know less about saints than I do, and that's quite an accomplishment. My point all along has been that people pray to saints, which by definition makes saints gods. People do not, as a rule, pray to knights, hall of famers or black belts in karate.

John Paul Pedophile Enabler II a saint? Gimme a break.

 

[darthrender2010]

Then I would, if you'll allow, say that you know less about saints than I do, and that's quite an accomplishment. My point all along has been that people pray to saints, which by definition makes saints gods. People do not, as a rule, pray to knights, hall of famers or black belts in karate.

His point was that it isn't the beatification/sainthood that gives them the power, but that it is an official recognition of their "sainthood" which has nothing to do with them being actual saints. What the Catholic Church actually believes is that "godly" people are "blessed" with the ability to channel (if you will) god's miraculous powers. By praying to them, one is asking them to intercede on the praying person's behalf to god. In the belief it isn't the saint that has the power, but God. The saint is merely a person of higher prayer caliber or something, someone god listens to more I guess.

 

[Pennies for Thoughts]

I understand the Catholic Church's point of view that Saints don't answer prayers, they only bend The Big Ear on behalf of the supplicant. This argument appears to follow the same pretzel logic as the Trinity conundrum. The Church of Rome will say anything before it will admit that Catholicism is polytheistic, but think about it; anyone who has regular face time with The One True God has to be transcendental by definition.

And let's not ignore the miracles that Saints have to perform to get into the club? The French nun says that it was JP2 who cured her Parkinson's, not God. If God did it, then it couldn't be JP2's miracle, could it? And even godless heathens recognize that when it comes to transcendental powers, miracles are da bomb. So Saints do indeed possess what are generally recognized as god-like characteristics, whether the Catholic Church admits to them or not.

 

[Talono]

He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

 

[lrkun]

Now, I'm interested in looking for books written by john paul ii. I wonder if it is available online.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I understand the Catholic Church's point of view that Saints don't answer prayers, they only bend The Big Ear on behalf of the supplicant. This argument appears to follow the same pretzel logic as the Trinity conundrum. The Church of Rome will say anything before it will admit that Catholicism is polytheistic, but think about it; anyone who has regular face time with The One True God has to be transcendental by definition.

And let's not ignore the miracles that Saints have to perform to get into the club? The French nun says that it was JP2 who cured her Parkinson's, not God. If God did it, then it couldn't be JP2's miracle, could it? And even godless heathens recognize that when it comes to transcendental powers, miracles are da bomb. So Saints do indeed possess what are generally recognized as god-like characteristics, whether the Catholic Church admits to them or not.

You're overthinking the whole ordeal.

 

[Pennies for Thoughts]

He's not the worst pope to have rolled through - thus, the Sainthood.
Why are you whining?

you're overthinking the whole ordeal.

Honestly, Hytegia, you've posted better.