Is YHWH Alive?

[mirandansa]

A good question to ponder is this. If it all started with YHVH, how did it became the Jesus myth?

As Richard Dawkins analyses, there may be an evolutionary factor operating among cultural ideas. Religions with more appealing elements are more likely to be picked up and propagate. Most people dislike despair; for them, the messianic myth can be a good comfort. So, as one of the "powerful" evolutionary traits for a monotheistic religion, the Jesus myth came about among the heretics of the religious traditions in the ancient Middle East. At least theoretically, from an atheistic viewpoint.

There are other interpretations:

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[masterjedijared]

No offense meant, mirandansa, but I think you're kinda reaching with the Flower of Life metaphor.

I think the evolution of religious thought can be completely and entirely understood from an anthropological and psychological perspective. I've pointed out such a rough and brief explanation already.

Most religions can easily be summed up as superstition and culture. In many instances both the superstitions and culture are heavily influenced by local sources. The Abrahamic religions can likewise be illustrated as nothing more than this.

Now, art is indeed very interesting but I'm fairly certain that I've heard art scholars mention there's an evolution there too. That is to say that if multiple cultures share similar elements in artistic expression then there's most likely a sharing involved. There is rarely 'stand alone complexes' so to speak. I'm not very knowledgeable on art specifics though so I'd be willing to revise my knowledge if need be.

 

[lrkun]

No offense meant, mirandansa, but I think you're kinda reaching with the Flower of Life metaphor.

I think the evolution of religious thought can be completely and entirely understood from an anthropological and psychological perspective. I've pointed out such a rough and brief explanation already.

Most religions can easily be summed up as superstition and culture. In many instances both the superstitions and culture are heavily influenced by local sources. The Abrahamic religions can likewise be illustrated as nothing more than this.

Now, art is indeed very interesting but I'm fairly certain that I've heard art scholars mention there's an evolution there too. That is to say that if multiple cultures share similar elements in artistic expression then there's most likely a sharing involved. There is rarely 'stand alone complexes' so to speak. I'm not very knowledgeable on art specifics though so I'd be willing to revise my knowledge if need be.

Don't you think you're generalizing a conclusion for all religion?

 

[masterjedijared]

I did say most not all.

Some aspects, like meditation, is fine and has a benefit. Though to be honest, there seems to be an appeal to believing in various superstitions if the numbers of believers is to be indicative.

 

[lrkun]

I did say most not all.

Some aspects, like meditation, is fine and has a benefit. Though to be honest, there seems to be an appeal to believing in various superstitions if the numbers of believers is to be indicative.

I see. I've never used meditations much these days. I don't know if it really helps. I guess, sometimes, I do so for the reason of relaxing, of course, it can never replace a proper moment's sleep. However, it feels good in so doing while meditating. Anyway what do you mean when you say that there is an appeal to believing in various superstitutions if the numbers of believers is to be indicative?

 

[masterjedijared]

Many people believe in religions. Religions tend to be comprised of superstitions and mythology. Ergo, since so many people believe in such it seems to have a broad appeal.

 

[lrkun]

Many people believe in religions. Religions tend to be comprised of superstitions and mythology. Ergo, since so many people believe in such it seems to have a broad appeal.

So you mean to say that people seems to follow the band wagon? In short, the bandwagon effect? If yes, my reply is that I understand. People so do such, because it is either trendy or what's in for the time. It reminds me of something similar with the trends in clothing. A better or clearer example would be a cellphone.

If no, then I am confused with what you are referring to. Hehe.

 

[masterjedijared]

Meditation seems to have the benefit of calming and disciplining the mind when regularly practiced. It also has calming effects and can reduce stress. Anything about spiritual enlightenment I'm heavily skeptical about.

As far as the empirical benefits of meditation I would like to mention that there's other activities and methods to get the same thing so I wouldn't say meditation is some superior technique.

As far as bandwagon effect, yes I would say that roughly encapsulates what I'm saying.

 

[lrkun]

Another point to consider is where did they get the term shemhamforash?

 

[masterjedijared]

Well, I'd honestly say that it probably comes from the etymology outlined on the wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemhamphorasch

 

[Andiferous]

Indeed, religion tends to fare quite well when there is a bit a truth at least behind the mythology (for whatever reason). So as such, I suspect you might find truth behind most religions on a universal basis.

Meditation seems to have the benefit of calming and disciplining the mind when regularly practiced. It also has calming effects and can reduce stress. Anything about spiritual enlightenment I'm heavily skeptical about.

As far as the empirical benefits of meditation I would like to mention that there's other activities and methods to get the same thing so I wouldn't say meditation is some superior technique.

As far as bandwagon effect, yes I would say that roughly encapsulates what I'm saying.

I'm horribly incompetent at meditation, however, I recognise that the practice is incredibly useful to myself and people of modern society. (Even saying I can barely really do it. Which says something to me, at least). Modern society has its own faults and detractions, and for whatever reason, meditation is a handy opposite. And it seems to work, anyway. And perhaps on a more learned and permanent basis than something like, perhaps, Valium.

Meditation needn't be spiritual, but it often is. It really just involves power over the brain and thought patterns. Psychology might come to a similar conclusion, here. So this might be a poor example to use. I think we're all a bit tainted by our origins. Even psychiatrists might recommend meditation.

This is really just an aside, because the baby tends to get tossed with the bathwater.

 

[masterjedijared]

I agree though. I myself still meditate and it is/can be useful in today's society. Its so useful in fact that if religion was to be removed from it altogether (such as the Theravada school of Buddhism) then we'd have a great tool that could be more accessible. I think meditation is already very accessible but there seems to be a vibe in 'western' societies that you need to be Buddhist/Hindu/Taoist to really get the usefulness from it even though this is not true.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that there are some western religions that kinda have rudimentary meditation in some forms of prayer and asceticism. However, these forms tend to be surrounded by magical expectations (like talking to Jesus, knowing the mind of God, etc).

 

[Andiferous]

I agree though. I myself still meditate and it is/can be useful in today's society. Its so useful in fact that if religion was to be removed from it altogether (such as the Theravada school of Buddhism) then we'd have a great tool that could be more accessible. I think meditation is already very accessible but there seems to be a vibe in 'western' societies that you need to be Buddhist/Hindu/Taoist to really get the usefulness from it even though this is not true.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that there are some western religions that kinda have rudimentary meditation in some forms of prayer and asceticism. However, these forms tend to be surrounded by magical expectations (like talking to Jesus, knowing the mind of God, etc).

Indeed. Many try to claim it as their own (as with other things), but in this scenario, I have to wonder if external ownership is contrary to the concept of meditation. We're such a contradictory bunch.

 

[masterjedijared]

*sagely nod*

Yar.

 

[mirandansa]

Meditation seems to have the benefit of calming and disciplining the mind when regularly practiced. It also has calming effects and can reduce stress. Anything about spiritual enlightenment I'm heavily skeptical about.

One form of meditation i often do is by walking. According to the principle of relativity, there is no fundamental difference between me walking on a surface and the surface moving past under my feet. Fundamentally, i walk by not walking on the surface, and the surface moves by not moving under my feet. There is just the oneness of the event, the undivided whole of relativised me and the surface. In fact, everything. Walls of buildings to my side, people, cars... it's not that these things move independent of me or that i move independent of them. I cannot make my way without them, and they cannot make their way without me. All motions are mutually dependent. We together create our space (and expand it, along the on-going effect of the Big Bang). And i can meditate on that reality just by walking.

As regards YHVH, there certainly are Jewish and Christian (as well as Islamic) forms of meditation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_meditation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_meditation
These are often mysticism, and give a more advanced and deeper sense of God than those through literalistic approaches. You don't seek God by imagining a guy in the sky but by being with reality. This is the kind of thing John Shelby Spong talks about:





Accordingly, YHVH is to represent the ultimate oneness of reality. Scientifically speaking, we came from the same gravitational singularity, and all particles in the Universe are quantum mechanically entangled. Individuation is only a local phenomenon; as a whole, all of us are contained within the same one origin. Although we developed through divisions,



, the process has never affected the original oneness, the boundary of the Cosmos, of God:

There is no God at which we can point our finger from within the Cosmos, within that which is created; God, if any, is the transcendental principle for existence and non-existence, the condition for something and nothing, the process of division from the fundamental state of oneness. Reality is thus sacred. And religion is ideally to offer a path to the realisation of it. But many many people, theists or atheists, have misinterpreted its true significance. God is not a thing. It's what we do.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Ahriman almighty Mirandansa! At least use the bloody ShowMore button if you're going to keep doing that.

 

[mirandansa]

Ahriman almighty Mirandansa! At least use the bloody ShowMore button if you're going to keep doing that.

That sounds like a very neat feature. How do i put that in?

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Ahriman almighty Mirandansa! At least use the bloody ShowMore button if you're going to keep doing that.

That sounds like a very neat feature. How do i put that in?

Click the button that says ShowMore.

 

[mirandansa]

That sounds like a very neat feature. How do i put that in?

Click the button that says ShowMore.

Haha, i'd never paid attention to this button. :lol: I put the tags always manually.

 

[retardedsociety]

Well, judging from the religion being newer than other older religions, and considering that most stories in the bible are adaptations of other pagan stories rewritten to fit Yahweh, then this particular god may perhaps be either made up by someone who wanted to top the other pagan gods, or there was really an Abraham who had schizophrenia and decided to give the voice in his head "god" credit for all the fairy tales he heard back when he lived in a pagan city.