Is this comforting?

[Yfelsung]

Hello fellow sacks of rancid meat and dirty water,

I was recently confronted with the situation of attempting to comfort someone after the death of their friend. Now, I am a life long atheist, and some would say borderline nihilist, and due to being stubborn about maintaining this stance even when pretending "they're somewhere better" would comfort this person more (possibly) I was forced to come up with something on the spot. The following is the message I sent them and I wanted to know if this would be at all comforting to anyone who just lost a love one.

We are all star dust. The planet we live on is star dust. The planets we see in the sky are star dust. The plants, the animals, the water, the rock... all star dust.

In that way, we are all connected through the giver of all life and all non-life, the sun. The electrical impulses that animate your friend may be gone, but his matter will be reconfigured into a infinite number of new forms. If you knew this person in real life and hung out with him, you have absorbed countless grams of his physical matter through the inhalation of the gasses his body produced and the particulate matter that his body shed every second of every day.

You and your friend are one, in a sense, so he's not really gone.

 

[wolfrayet]

I'd say that sums it up quit nicely - alternatively posting a copy of "Cosmos" would also have a similar effect :lol:

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

That is ahh... Comforting is not the right word. But it would pique my interest. That's just me though.

I would've gone with an adaptation of "we are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones" and close down with something like "I'm sure the luck they had to be alive was luck spent on the right person, as shown by how we are sitting here, remembering his life."

 

[lrkun]

Life and death are concepts created by man to distinguish one from the other. In a sense, you can reason that life never ends, because when the door to life closes, one becomes a part of the cosmos, therefore the journey continues.

If one wishes to see evidence. The circle of life is a good analogy or example. Therefore let your friend watch the Lion king, hehe.

 

[KnowingLaughter]

Hello Yfelsung

I hope it is not inappropriate as a new user to comment on this, if it is please tell me and I will remove it.

I have recently been in a similar position and also as a life long atheist found it hard to offer any comfort to my friend. In the end I focused on the fact that they had shared many memories and experiences together that no one else had, or will.

My angle was that we all live and we all die, each one of our lives is so statistically improbable, and we are all essentially living on borrowed or limited time. Each memory, experience, interaction etc. that we have is something that is so unlikely, can only ever be ours, never taken away and never replaced. To me that means we should cherish each and every memory of someone and look back with fondness at the times and experiences we have shared (and our defiance of the laws of chance and mathematics), rather than look sadly to the future times we will not share with them (which was always inevitable).

My friend is a Christian in the loose sense and a mathematician, which is why I tried to relate it to chance and the improbability of him ever meeting his partner compared to the certainty of eventual passing away. I suppose without the chance analogy the point could still be put, albeit abruptly:

"I think [deceased] would have preferred you to look back with fondness at the times you shared together, than look forward with sadness at the times you won't."

Personally I found your message to be factually comforting - In the sense that a fellow atheist would probably take from that a sense of acceptance, but I am not sure if it would particularly comfort a spiritualist or theist - I suppose it is hard to know without being one.

 

[Zetetic]

Life and death are concepts created by man to distinguish one from the other. In a sense, you can reason that life never ends, because when the door to life closes, one becomes a part of the cosmos, therefore the journey continues.

Well, not if you agree that you in fact are the electrical impulses that cause chemical reactions in your brain interacting through synaptic pathways of varying strength that are weighted by your interactions with the world. Then you will not be continuing anything, you will cease to be. This is because you are an organized structure, not just a lump of all the particles that make you up. The organization is the essential thing. You will never have as much fun with a rock made of compressed composted organic and particulate matter as you would with a person. Grieving is necessary (unless, I guess, we figure out why it's necessary and find a better solution to the problem it fixes), I find that the only way I can really get over something is to accept it. Making quasi relevant warm and fuzzy frameworks through which to view what is unpleasant doesn't really do much for me in terms of comfort, but I'm probably unusual in this respect.

I have to just stare at what is afflicting me and try to work through it. I don't know though. Maybe those frameworks can help stagger the grieving process rather than just slowing it down. It makes it easier to digest, maybe. I don't know, all my friends are jerks so I really just can't relate to this sort of thing even in the abstract.

 

[lrkun]

Well, not if you agree that you in fact are the electrical impulses that cause chemical reactions in your brain interacting through synaptic pathways of varying strength that are weighted by your interactions with the world. Then you will not be continuing anything, you will cease to be. This is because you are an organized structure, not just a lump of all the particles that make you up. The organization is the essential thing. You will never have as much fun with a rock made of compressed composted organic and particulate matter as you would with a person. Grieving is necessary (unless, I guess, we figure out why it's necessary and find a better solution to the problem it fixes), I find that the only way I can really get over something is to accept it. Making quasi relevant warm and fuzzy frameworks through which to view what is unpleasant doesn't really do much for me in terms of comfort, but I'm probably unusual in this respect.

I have to just stare at what is afflicting me and try to work through it. I don't know though. Maybe those frameworks can help stagger the grieving process rather than just slowing it down. It makes it easier to digest, maybe. I don't know, all my friends are jerks so I really just can't relate to this sort of thing even in the abstract.

If this is the case, then you apply the law of conservation of energy. Therefore when you die, you're electrical impulses will just change from one form to another and will continue to go on.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

If this is the case, then you apply the law of conservation of energy. Therefore when you die, you're electrical impulses will just change from one form to another and will continue to go on.

Well no, Zetetic actually did say "you are an organized structure, not just a lump of all the particles that make you up."
He's making the point that 'you' are the sum of the parts, not the parts themselves.

 

[lrkun]

If this is the case, then you apply the law of conservation of energy. Therefore when you die, you're electrical impulses will just change from one form to another and will continue to go on.

Well no, Zetetic actually did say "you are an organized structure, not just a lump of all the particles that make you up."
He's making the point that 'you' are the sum of the parts, not the parts themselves.

Hmmm... I guess I misinterpreted the thing then. If that is the case, then returning to dust and a part of the earth, seems like a good way to continue the cycle.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Hmmm... I guess I misinterpreted the thing then. If that is the case, then returning to dust and a part of the earth, seems like a good way to continue the cycle.

The chemical processes that made you live are gone and were an important part of the sum. With this part missing, the sum, that is you, is as well.

 

[lrkun]

The chemical processes that made you live are gone and were an important part of the sum. With this part missing, the sum, that is you, is as well.

I can reconcile both by applying the conservation of energy on one part and returning to earth on the other. wehehe. If that doesn't work, then if we die and cease, then okay. What else can we do? :cry:

 

[RichardMNixon]

Perhaps I'm a bit of a pragmatist but I would say no. It just sounded kind of confusing and out of place. His friend really is gone. He didn't like his friend's carbon; he liked his friend's personality. That is gone. Whatever it's made of it's gone forever.

I would go with something simpler along the lines of "Your friend would want you to continue on with your life, you can't let this bring you down."

 

[lrkun]

Perhaps I'm a bit of a pragmatist but I would say no. It just sounded kind of confusing and out of place. His friend really is gone. He didn't like his friend's carbon; he liked his friend's personality. That is gone. Whatever it's made of it's gone forever.

I would go with something simpler along the lines of "Your friend would want you to continue on with your life, you can't let this bring you down."

Or something like this. As long as you remember your friend, he/she will continue to live inside of you. ^-^

 

[Anachronous Rex]

I have, on one unfortunate occasion, had the displeasure of being lightly coated in 'dead' material. It was not a pleasant sensation.

So no. I prefer as many intermediaries as possible; it helps me to see things precisely not in these terms.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

The chemical processes that made you live are gone and were an important part of the sum. With this part missing, the sum, that is you, is as well.

I can reconcile both by applying the conservation of energy on one part and returning to earth on the other. wehehe. If that doesn't work, then if we die and cease, then okay. What else can we do? :cry:

I think that if you take an A4 sheet of paper and you cut it up into confetti, it's an A4 sheet of paper no longer.

 

[lrkun]

I think that if you take an A4 sheet of paper and you cut it up into confetti, it's an A4 sheet of paper no longer.

So what would you want me to say?

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

So what would you want me to say?

That dead is dead and you in no way live on or continue in some kind of cycle? Poof, gone forever? Forget reconciliation with any romantic notions? You know, the one thing that is just not charming...

 

[lrkun]

That dead is dead and you in no way live on or continue in some kind of cycle? Poof, gone forever? Forget reconciliation with any romantic notions? You know, the one thing that is just not charming...

Hehe, not everyone is that strong all the time though. The situation requires something humanitarian.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Hehe, not everyone is that strong all the time though. The situation requires something humanitarian.

Ah, I see, you meant in the comforting way? Yeah, well, I'd still not pretend to believe that person unites with the universe.

I would've gone with an adaptation of "we are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones" and close down with something like "I'm sure the luck they had to be alive was luck spent on the right person, as shown by how we are sitting here, remembering his life."

Simply because focusing on the death is what upsets them in the first place, I'd try to make them remember how well they lived and what a good person it was. Recall the good, not the bad.

 

[Aught3]

I found it kind of creepy. Electrical impulses and gaseous emissions are not really what I would want to think about after the death of a loved one.