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Is Richard Dawkins just a media whore?

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jaocheu

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arg-fallbackName="jaocheu"/>
In the 70's Richard Dawkins with his pal Douglas Adams went around heckling Elaine Morgan as she lectured on Aquatic Ape Theory. Nowadays AAT is arguably the main belief since Philip Tobias declared "The Savannah Theory is Dead" and has major proponents such as David Attenborough.


In the 90's Dawkins decided to take on postmodernism.

Now admittedly there are a lot of idiots calling themselves postmodernists, just as there are a lot of idiots calling themselves atheists. There are so-called postmodern artists, historians, political scientists and so on, all mostly characterised by the fact they haven't a clue what postmodern is behind the trendy jargon. In philosophy the people who created postmodernism and are arguably the only people who genuinely understand it, there is no such thing as a postmodernist, only postmodernism.

When a creationist decides to have a go at cosmology or biology we all do one thing, laugh. Without any study and practically no understanding of even the basics, creationists lecture authoritatively to their flock nonsense, my favourite example has to be Ray Comfort and the banana intelligently designed for the human hand to hold. Or rather intelligently designed for a porn movie in my opinion.

Now Dawkins chose as a laymen with a poor understanding of the topic (philosophy), getting much of his research from the misinformed cranks, chose to take on philosophers on their home ground, and to them appeared little more than Ray Comfort would to an evolutionary biologist.


Now Richard seems to have turned his attention of the Religiously Abled, (my PC term for them). After failing two times against intelligent educated people, he is now going for the softest of soft targets, the people on the whole earth with the lamest, weakest, most ridiculous position there is. My grandmother could outdebate these guys, and she's been dead over a decade.



There seems to be a pattern emerging, in the first example he sought to stifle debate and science out of small minded prejudice, in the second he sought to preach authoritatively from a position of poor understanding and in the third he sought to target the weak. Does this sound familiar?


It seems to me Richard Dawkins seems to just be looking for ways to promote Richard Dawkins Ltd and little more.
 
arg-fallbackName="PuppetXeno"/>
Well, yes, he is quite the Diva. But overall he does a pretty good job, and that's his eventual purpose: to raise awareness, to help the number of reasonable people reach that "critical mass" that will lead to the ever steeper decline of religiosity in the world populace.

So whatever nasty side-effects to his personality, I fully support what he's trying to achieve.

Or are you arguing that he just does this to stuff his wallet, and that he doesn't give a crap at all? Even that doesn't matter, because he's still fulfilling the part of anti-messiah, more or less :lol:
 
arg-fallbackName="Gnomesmusher"/>
jaocheu said:
Now Richard seems to have turned his attention of the Religiously Abled, (my PC term for them). After failing two times against intelligent educated people, he is now going for the softest of soft targets, the people on the whole earth with the lamest, weakest, most ridiculous position there is. My grandmother could outdebate these guys, and she's been dead over a decade.


jaocheu said:
There seems to be a pattern emerging, in the first example he sought to stifle debate and science out of small minded prejudice, in the second he sought to preach authoritatively from a position of poor understanding and in the third he sought to target the weak. Does this sound familiar?

I'd like some specific examples (preferably links) of what you referred to in the above quotes before I can fully comment. When were these instances of Dawkins "failing two times against intelligent educated people" and when did he seek to "stifle debate and science out of small minded prejudice"?


EDIT: Oh did you mean the AAT incident?
 
arg-fallbackName="jaocheu"/>
I'm not arguing he doesn't believe in what he is doing, just that he tried and failed in two more credible arenas and has chosen rather to be rather mediocre and anonymous in them, he's prefered to be successful in an area that one would have to scrape the bottom of the bucket to find.
 
arg-fallbackName="Gnomesmusher"/>
Ok after a brief search. there really isn't much on the AAT. As far as I can find, the AAT doesn't have much going for it and there's a lot of debate going on about it. So your characterization of Dawkins as stifling debate and science is really dishonest. Disagreeing IS part of debating. And in science there will be lots of disagreements until more evidence is found.

I'd still like more sources from you for your claims though.
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
Frankly, something smelled deeply fishy about the OP when I read it. So, I dug into my crazy Google machine, and here's some of what pops out:
  • Misrepresentation #1: "In the 70's Richard Dawkins with his pal Douglas Adams went around heckling Elaine Morgan as she lectured on Aquatic Ape Theory. Nowadays AAT is arguably the main belief since Philip Tobias declared "The Savannah Theory is Dead" and has major proponents such as David Attenborough.

  • The truth: Elaine Morgan was a TV writer with a degree in English Lit, who was going around lecturing about a hypothesis(not theory) that has been roundly rejected by most(not all) scientists.? I can't imagine why anyone you heckle a woman who was most famous for writing TV shows.

  • Misrepresentation #2: "In the 90's Dawkins decided to take on postmodernism."

  • The truth:Really? Because there's no evidence of it. The only thing Google comes up with is a book review Dawkins did in 1998. He may have talked about Postmodernism from time to time, but there is no evidence that he "took on" anybody, let alone lost. And, based on the first misrepresentation, I'll be shocked if there's any evidence here either.

  • Misrepresentation #3:" Now Richard seems to have turned his attention of the Religiously Abled, (my PC term for them). After failing two times against intelligent educated people, he is now going for the softest of soft targets, the people on the whole earth with the lamest, weakest, most ridiculous position there is. My grandmother could outdebate these guys, and she's been dead over a decade."

  • The truth:Dawkins turned his attention to beliefs held by the Vatican, the Islamic fundamentalist nations, and every recent president of the United States. He took on the most important foundational beliefs of some 4-5 billion people. Oh yeah, that's a soft target, he won't get any resistance there! He also chose to take on beliefs that are tearing the world apart. Should he have ignored religion simply because we believe it isn't well-supported by evidence, even though it is one of the major forces at work in the world today? To claim that this was "easy" is completely ridiculous,
 
arg-fallbackName="Gnomesmusher"/>
Heh. The OP should know better than to try to fool a forum full of skeptical thinkers. Idiot.
 
arg-fallbackName="jaocheu"/>
If that's skeptical thinking I'm the flying spagetti monster.

All I can see is a bunch of people who don't understand AAT attempting to talk about it without looking stupid and not having the brains to google David Attenborough or Philip Tobias. The clues are in the writing.

The idea Elaine Morgan wasn't capable of making an intelligent argument because she wasn't a academic was the reason she was being heckled by Dawkins (Scars of Evolution) which apparently isn't unscientific, is ridiculous (what next a patent clerk writing about physics). Great next time I go to a science comference I'll heckle the speaker and say it's ok LOR members all believe heckling part of the scientific process.

If you had the brains to read even further you may discover it wasn't even her idea but a Cambridge marine biologist. She just advocated it. And there's more work being done on theory at the moment than any other.

As for postmodernism, Ever heard of "postmodernism disrobed" nope! oh well,
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
jaocheu said:
If that's skeptical thinking I'm the flying spagetti monster.

All I can see is a bunch of people who don't understand AAT attempting to talk about it without looking stupid and not having the brains to google David Attenborough or Philip Tobias. The clues are in the writing.

The idea Elaine Morgan wasn't capable of making an intelligent argument because she wasn't a academic was the reason she was being heckled by Dawkins (Scars of Evolution) which apparently isn't unscientific, is ridiculous (what next a patent clerk writing about physics). Great next time I go to a science comference I'll heckle the speaker and say it's ok LOR members all believe heckling part of the scientific process.

If you had the brains to read even further you may discover it wasn't even her idea but a Cambridge marine biologist. She just advocated it. And there's more work being done on theory at the moment than any other.

As for postmodernism, Ever heard of "postmodernism disrobed" nope! oh well,
Yes, I've heard of "Postmodernism Disrobed" and you obviously haven't. It is a BOOK REVIEW. Oh well, you don't even know the subject of your own topic!
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
Gnomesmusher said:
Heh. The OP should know better than to try to fool a forum full of skeptical thinkers.
It is weird, because you would think that someone would know better than to lie and present no evidence in their first claim, show deep ignorance in their second claim, and then try to use those two things to support a third idea... and then expect that no one would Google any of this stuff. That's just strange!
 
arg-fallbackName="jaocheu"/>
You think on a forum called LOR people with some kind of rational ability would join. Nope. I gues it's the same old story, if you conduct a survey and ask people how intelligent they think they are, the stupidest people have the highest rating of their own intelligence. A forum named LOR was obviously like a magnet to a fraud like you. Maybe the forum name should be changed to league of dumb arsed rhetoric for specially for stupid twats like you.
 
arg-fallbackName="Gnomesmusher"/>
Actually, I think I'm only average in intelligence but the big difference is that I don't believe in things without proof or some reasonable explaination first. So far, all you've done is lie, misrepresent facts and presented opinions as facts. And then you get mad that we didn't fall for it and agree with you.

You accuse Dawkins of stifling debate and science when you yourself can't seem to handle healthy skepticism. You didn't even provide any links or sources to back up your claims. As I said before, there is little to back up the Aquatic Ape Theory so it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of it. Just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean it is, it needs more evidence to make it's case.

But instead you get pissed because no one will accept it based on little or no evidence. You're acting like a creationist. Makes me wonder.
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
Gnomesmusher said:
Actually, I think I'm only average in intelligence but the big difference is that I don't believe in things without proof or some reasonable explaination first. So far, all you've done is lie, misrepresent facts and presented opinions as facts. And then you get mad that we didn't fall for it and agree with you.

You accuse Dawkins of stifling debate and science when you yourself can't seem to handle healthy skepticism. You didn't even provide any links or sources to back up your claims. As I said before, there is little to back up the Aquatic Ape Theory so it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of it. Just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean it is, it needs more evidence to make it's case.

But instead you get pissed because no one will accept it based on little or no evidence. You're acting like a creationist. Makes me wonder.
I'm wondering the same thing... especially the phrasing of the attack on the whole forum. It sounds exactly like the creationists that show up on message boards looking to start a fight, not have a discussion, so that they can go back to their fellow creationists and claim that we're bad people and "closed minded."

Not me. I have an open mind. That's why I did some research, and came to the conclusions I did.
 
arg-fallbackName="jaocheu"/>
The old bereft of argument rhetoric.

Like whenever a troskyite encounters someone who disagrees with them, they scream fascist. You raise that old washed our scam scream he doesn't agree with me he's religious, mummy! It's not just pathetic it's old an worn out by lefties for decades before.

As I said you just here for rhetoric no other reason, and your rhetorically strategies are rather limited. I'd find a different hobby unless you consider this your kindergarten to learn rhetoric in.
 
arg-fallbackName="GoodKat"/>
Put out some sources of shut up, I get so sick of having to counter bare assertions.
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
GoodKat said:
Put out some sources of shut up, I get so sick of having to counter bare assertions.
It is yet another troll... most likely Christian, since Christians on the Internet see lying as a perfectly acceptable thing, and 10 Commandments be damned.
 
arg-fallbackName="Aught3"/>
lol the reason AAT got laughed at was that it had no supporting evidence, much like the OP, and look same response. It's the perfect recreation.
 
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