Is Reincarnation Possible?

[Krazyskooter]

I'm not talking about the you die and come back based on how you lived your life religion. I'm talking about the probability that your consciousness may be reassembled at some distant point in the future based on odds. Since if you have an infinite amount of time for something to occur then even the slightest chance for it to occur becomes 100%, since I know that my consciousness has occurred at least once, is it possible that I may find myself conscious again at some point another few billions years from now?

This is just a thought experiment, I don't have an opinion on this one way or the other, I want to know what you all think.

 

[Yfelsung]

It depends, there are theories that some memories can become genetic, kind of the basis of instinct, but we know so little about it it's impossible to tell if this could be the basis of ideas like reincarnation or 'past lives'. I'd say the odds are pretty slim that any part of you can survive death in anything other than the basic atomic building blocks. Much of who you are is based on your experiences, which would have no way to reassemble later.

Then, of course, the question comes up if that would still be YOUR consciousness. If you take two twins and raise them identically and ensure they share every experience, are they the same person? They look the same, have the same memories, likely think the same about everything.

I'd say the odds are pretty good that this is your only ride down the slide.

 

[MineMineMine]

this has bugging me quite some time.

if you take time into account even every oh so improbable event would take place some time. and every probable one even more often.

like you going shopping in the city and suddenly everyone starts dancing without a reason for 3 days or something like that.


i do like the idea because it entertains me. but it's also a bit scary. you could reassemble in a rather hellish place with a bit too stubborn body




edit:

Then, of course, the question comes up if that would still be YOUR consciousness. If you take two twins and raise them identically and ensure they share every experience, are they the same person? They look the same, have the same memories, likely think the same about everything.

i would define my consciousness as the 'thing' i experience right now. If there was my identical clone in front of me, i wouldn't see with his eyes therefore he wouldn't be part of my consciousness.

 

[Yfelsung]

Then would you consider the consciousness you have now reforming at a future date to be yours or not?

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

I think the trick here is that consciousness can't reassemble. Yes, I'm pulling an LRkun and I'll be using (basic) science to answer a philosophical question, but fuck you all.

The better question would be: "Can your brain reassemble somewhere?" But the brains need oxygen, so I guess we need a heart and lungs too. And plenty more. So now we have the question: "Can your body reassemble somewhere else in roughly the same form?" To which I say no, because the universe is trying to kill us and our feeble body.

 

[Yfelsung]

I think the trick here is that consciousness can't reassemble. Yes, I'm pulling an LRkun and I'll be using (basic) science to answer a philosophical question, but fuck you all.

The better question would be: "Can your brain reassemble somewhere?" But the brains need oxygen, so I guess we need a heart and lungs too. And plenty more. So now we have the question: "Can your body reassemble somewhere else in roughly the same form?" To which I say no, because the universe is trying to kill us and our feeble body.

There is one scientific option, though it's only theoretically possible: digitizing your brain. Then your consciousness wouldn't require a body, only an appropriate amount of physical memory, power and hopefully some input and output options.

But the question would still remain as to whether one would consider that their consciousness; that, and it wouldn't technically be reincarnation.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Err... perhaps it has already happened and you are the nth version of yourself?

 

[Yfelsung]

Err... perhaps it has already happened and you are the nth version of yourself?

Nietzsche had this odd theory called "Eternal Reoccurrance" that basically says you've already done, and will do, everything you've done over and over for eternity. Of course, this begs the question of whether this is the first run, or the billionth run. Are you doomed to repeat a past mistake, or doomed to make a fresh mistake you'll make forever.

 

[Krazyskooter]

Err... perhaps it has already happened and you are the nth version of yourself?

Nietzsche had this odd theory called "Eternal Reoccurrance" that basically says you've already done, and will do, everything you've done over and over for eternity. Of course, this begs the question of whether this is the first run, or the billionth run. Are you doomed to repeat a past mistake, or doomed to make a fresh mistake you'll make forever.

Stephen Kings character Roland from the Dark Tower series is similar to this way of thinking.

 

[RedYellow]

Of course, this begs the question of whether this is the first run, or the billionth run.

Well if you go further than the dimension of time, then it wouldn't matter, the fact that it already happened and that everything is resulting from it, means that it has always happened. A quantity of occurances over time is a way of looking at it that is only relevant to us lower-dimensional beings, it's like saying how many times as time itself happened?

 

[DeusExNihilum]

Yes and no is my answer.

Imagine a lego house.

Now Imagine I destroy the lego house.

Now imagine I rebuild the lego house putting the same peices in the same places. Would you say that this is the same house? Personally, I would say that no, it is not the same house, the original house was destroyed. But the fact remains that it is indistinguishable from the original, it's a perfect copy.


Though the fact that there would be OBVIOUS environmental differences that would make the same consciousness occur twice on the same timeline, even If we were overlook things like that and grant that your exact personality and biology come to "be" again...it would still not be you, your original consciousness is dead, and though this second "You" is indistinguishable from the first "You"...it is not the same "You".


if i make sense....probably not.

 

[Laurens]

What part of us survives beyond death? How would this transfer from one body to the next? By what criteria would the next body be chosen?

I mean how can a seagull get reborn as a human? Does it have to be a particularly altruistic seagull?

Reincarnation is almost always associated with the notion of karma. That one's present condition and one's future forms are decided by our actions. A particularly aggressive person might be reborn as a bear for example. However, if the criteria for being reborn in more favourable conditions is moral behaviour, which almost always includes a moral absolute against killing. How then is a creature such as a bear, that has to kill for a living, supposed to progress toward more favourable rebirths? Surely it would mean that reincarnation would be a regression down the scale of favourable conditions, and progress toward desirable realms rendered highly unlikely.

Reincarnation is just another flawed religious doctrine, there is no reason to believe it.

 

[Krazyskooter]

I guess it's pointless to think about it, since if it could happen we wouldn't know it had happened anyway. I think Laurens is misunderstanding my point though. I wasn't talking about a karmic reincarnation, I was just wondering if after an unknown amount of time (Perhaps billions of years) our consciousness could reawaken in some other form regardless of how you lived your life.

When I think about it I imagine death being like anesthesia, You don't know how long you've been under, but it feels like it was just seconds ago. Except with this, you have complete amnesia since you are a different organism.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

How about brain cloning? If in the distant future humans develop such a technology that we could take a snapshot of your brain's current state (all its 'data', that is the neural circuit) and store it, then recreate the same neural structure in another brain, will the person using that brain be... you?

 

[Krazyskooter]

How about brain cloning? If in the distant future humans develop such a technology that we could take a snapshot of your brain's current state (all its 'data', that is the neural circuit) and store it, then recreate the same neural structure in another brain, will the person using that brain be... you?

We could take it a step further I guess and say that someone has complete global amnesia. They never get their memories back. Are they the same person?

 

[Andiferous]

How about brain cloning? If in the distant future humans develop such a technology that we could take a snapshot of your brain's current state (all its 'data', that is the neural circuit) and store it, then recreate the same neural structure in another brain, will the person using that brain be... you?

We could take it a step further I guess and say that someone has complete global amnesia. They never get their memories back. Are they the same person?

Even were it possible, nature or nurture.

 

[lrkun]

I don't know if reincarnation is possible, because I don't remember my past life. However, from this idea, I can devise a lot of possible reasons why the concept of reincarnation was invented.

1. You can delude yourself into believing that in the next life, you'll be living like a king.

2. You can delude yourself to believe that in the past life, you lived like a king.

3. You can limit a person's behavior and place a condition, assuming he/she believes in reincarnation, that if he/she does good in this life, he/she will be awarded in the next.

4. You can limit a person's behavior and place a condition, assuming he/she believes in reincarnation, that if he/she does bad in this life, he/she will become a slug or some lower life form, even a bacteria or dung beetle.

---

Of course, you can come up with your own reasons, depending on your belief or imagination.

However, if you're searching for the truth, the answer can be found only when you die. That's not worth pondering anymore. Hehe. It's certain.

 

[Laurens]

People who recall past lives often seem to recount dramatic tales of fighter pilots, or great kings. No one seems to have had a past life as a mundane accountant, or an average bat.

I think its often a case of wishful thinking...

 

[MineMineMine]

I don't know if reincarnation is possible, because I don't remember my past life. However, from this idea, I can devise a lot of possible reasons why the concept of reincarnation was invented.

1. You can delude yourself into believing that in the next life, you'll be living like a king.

2. You can delude yourself to believe that in the past life, you lived like a king.

3. You can limit a person's behavior and place a condition, assuming he/she believes in reincarnation, that if he/she does good in this life, he/she will be awarded in the next.

4. You can limit a person's behavior and place a condition, assuming he/she believes in reincarnation, that if he/she does bad in this life, he/she will become a slug or some lower life form, even a bacteria or dung beetle.

---

Of course, you can come up with your own reasons, depending on your belief or imagination.

However, if you're searching for the truth, the answer can be found only when you die. That's not worth pondering anymore. Hehe. It's certain.

oh you are so off-topic^^

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

How about brain cloning? If in the distant future humans develop such a technology that we could take a snapshot of your brain's current state (all its 'data', that is the neural circuit) and store it, then recreate the same neural structure in another brain, will the person using that brain be... you?

I don't think so. Person X lives his life as usual. Then his consciousness is uploaded into another husk. So we have the original body becoming person O (for original) and the new body becoming Person C (for "copy"). But the moment this happens, both brains will start working independently. Person O will be at his position, under the forces (such as heat, gravity, etc) making his brains split off single-track "Person X" line into the "Person O" line. The same goes for Person C and "Person C" line.

We change from moment to moment. Every second we're another person. Copying a "state of mind" to another body would not change that.