Is it all religion's fault?

[Giant Blue Anteater]

I received an argument from somebody on a forum I go to, while agreeing to my points by noting that some people used their faith to justify their evils, he questions whether it was religions fault.

My short rebuttal to that is that people just blindly follow old books that have been edited multitudes of time. Even before great atrocities like the Spanish Inquisition occurred, when early Abrahamic religion was just getting a foothold, cities in the land of Canaan were cleansed of all breathing organisms, because a brutal warmonger (Moses) believed that Yhwh told him to do that if he wanted all of that land.

It seems to me that that Abrahamic religion (even from its early days) has done the world worse. But what about East Asian religions, like Taoism, Shintoism, and Confucianism (I excluded Buddhism because that is not really a religion, more of a philosophy of peace)? What bad deeds have been done in the name of those religions?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I think the point to make is not that religion is directly to blame as much as "faith-based thinking" that religion is based on. All religions are harmful, because they all depend on a willing suspension of disbelief when it comes to matters of reality. Once you've convinced yourself that feeling and believing are ways of knowing things, it is much easier to convince you of anything else, including convincing you to behave in negative ways.

 

[Giant Blue Anteater]

I think the point to make is not that religion is directly to blame as much as "faith-based thinking" that religion is based on. All religions are harmful, because they all depend on a willing suspension of disbelief when it comes to matters of reality. Once you've convinced yourself that feeling and believing are ways of knowing things, it is much easier to convince you of anything else, including convincing you to behave in negative ways.

But what I want to know is what atrocities have been done in the name of East Asian religions? Has anything been done?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

But what I want to know is what atrocities have been done in the name of East Asian religions? Has anything been done?

"In the name of" I can't think of offhand... I blame my lack of historical knowledge of the region. What's your point?

 

[Giant Blue Anteater]

But what I want to know is what atrocities have been done in the name of East Asian religions? Has anything been done?

"In the name of" I can't think of offhand... I blame my lack of historical knowledge of the region. What's your point?

Well, I just want to know. That's all.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Well, I just want to know. That's all.

Oh... ok.

Shinto... Pearl Harbor?

 

[Giant Blue Anteater]

Well, I just want to know. That's all.

Oh... ok.

Shinto... Pearl Harbor?

Well, what evidence do you have for that? Not that I'm dismissing the possibility that Shintoism was the motivation for Pearl Harbor. However, one should know that the Japanese were always aggressors until recently, and Pearl Harbor was just one of those aggressive deeds. They've done worse.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Well, what evidence do you have for that? Not that I'm dismissing the possibility that Shintoism was the motivation for Pearl Harbor. However, one should know that the Japanese were always aggressors until recently, and Pearl Harbor was just one of those aggressive deeds. They've done worse.

Yeah, and the Spanish Inquisition wasn't really about religion, because Spanish people have always been aggressive. :lol:

I don't know exactly what the point is, besides it being semi-random trivia.

 

[CVBrassil]

I received an argument from somebody on a forum I go to, while agreeing to my points by noting that some people used their faith to justify their evils, he questions whether it was religions fault.

My short rebuttal to that is that people just blindly follow old books that have been edited multitudes of time. Even before great atrocities like the Spanish Inquisition occurred, when early Abrahamic religion was just getting a foothold, cities in the land of Canaan were cleansed of all breathing organisms, because a brutal warmonger (Moses) believed that Yhwh told him to do that if he wanted all of that land.

It seems to me that that Abrahamic religion (even from its early days) has done the world worse. But what about East Asian religions, like Taoism, Shintoism, and Confucianism (I excluded Buddhism because that is not really a religion, more of a philosophy of peace)? What bad deeds have been done in the name of those religions?

Well, Hinduism has caused many fights, murders, battles, and so forth. That can be a rather extreme religion.

For other religions, well I know of nothing really. They can be destructive in their own ways, but no true massacres have occurred (to my knowledge) due to them.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Well, Hinduism has caused many fights, murders, battles, and so forth. That can be a rather extreme religion.

For other religions, well I know of nothing really. They can be destructive in their own ways, but no true massacres have occurred (to my knowledge) due to them.

And what that means is "no true massacres" against white people. They've killed the pure fuck out of each other for centuries, just like everyone else. The Chinese, for instance, didn't build a giant wall because they had a bunch of posters of kittens in trees and nowhere to hang them.

 

[nasher168]

And what that means is "no true massacres" against white people.

No. The Israelites in the Old Testament kill their neighbours, who were probably like Modern-Day Palestinians.
I think what CVBrassil was trying to say was that he simply doesn't know of any full-on Genocides by other religions.
I, however, would point to the Flowery Wars in modern-day Mexico, which were in full swing when Cortes landed in America. The Aztecs tried to capture hundreds of thousands of people for sacrifice.

 

[Gnomesmusher]

The Chinese, for instance, didn't build a giant wall because they had a bunch of posters of kittens in trees and nowhere to hang them.

And also, the Chinese had emperors whom they believed were descended from the heavens so the people gave absolute power to these rulers. And these emperors usually did some really bad stuff and the people let him do it because hey, who's going to stop an emperor from the heavens?

 

[nasher168]

On the subject of the Emperors of China, the Great Wall was meant not just as a barrier against invaders but also as a prison wall. The builders of the walls were either slaves or people working in slave-like conditions. There is some very moving poetry written by the builders, apparently.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

And also, the Chinese had emperors whom they believed were descended from the heavens so the people gave absolute power to these rulers. And these emperors usually did some really bad stuff and the people let him do it because hey, who's going to stop an emperor from the heavens?

That's what I was saying about the Japanese and Shinto. Their religion and culture were directly entwined with their religious beliefs.

 

[Fullmetalgeneticist]

Well, Hinduism has caused many fights, murders, battles, and so forth. That can be a rather extreme religion.

Mainly against other Hindus... Hindus to be fair have rarely used religion historically as a reason for organised war since in the big 3 religions worldwide its the most accepting of other faiths. It generally changed when the Partition of India occured resulting in millions of people moving between India to Pakistan. As expected when two sides are discriminated on the basis of religion, battle lines are drawn on those basis and stuff is broken. To blame Hinduism and Islam for the consequential deaths is like blaming red and blue for the crips and the bloods . Honestly the fights were breaking out anyways and religion just became the decider for no real reason apart from "those bastards ruined everything".

If your looking for bad moves by Hinduism its the Ayodhya and Gujarat Riots your looking for. (The partition to be fair is expected. You ask 7 million people to move on the basis of what religion they follow and naturally your going to be faced with one hell of a riot on religion...)

It is however the most accepting of the three big religions. Its fundies are "different kinds of harmful" from madness such as kicking muslims out of hindu weddings to trashing Valentine's day.

 

[Giant Blue Anteater]

Well, what evidence do you have for that? Not that I'm dismissing the possibility that Shintoism was the motivation for Pearl Harbor. However, one should know that the Japanese were always aggressors until recently, and Pearl Harbor was just one of those aggressive deeds. They've done worse.

Yeah, and the Spanish Inquisition wasn't really about religion, because Spanish people have always been aggressive. :lol:

I don't know exactly what the point is, besides it being semi-random trivia.

Hmmm, now that I talked to my friend, Shinto did play a minor part in the many atrocities Japan did against their foes, but it wasn't the main reason. The Japanese attacked us to coerce us to sell them oil again.

 

[xman]

Confucianism and Taoism have less to do with gods than Buddhism does. Zen Buddhists aside, they still pray to the Buddha and offer sacrifice. Confucianism has no gods and Taoism didn't have for a long time. Now they seem to have saints or something.

I agree with Joe. Religion is sometimes only responsible for atrocities insofar as they promote magical thinking and let people do the rest.

 

[thewhiterabbit]

Just a point.

Taoism, in it's pure form, is absolutely not religion. In fact it lends itself to atheism completely and there are no deities in it. There have, over the centuries, been deviations in true taoism practiced but they focussed on indulgent sexuality and/or longevity of life to, in a mystical sense, immortality. However, those were decadent forms which developed through an over indulgence in the concept of self development.

Buddhism, on the other hand, is totally a supernatural concept where, through reincarnation, one achieves nirvana, a perfect state akin to heaven. Buddha was a legendary character of superhuman abilities who interacted with god(s) of his time and acheived miraculous feats.

I am taoist by philosophy and it is flawless in it's honesty and naturalness. NOT a religion

For any interested, it's well worth a look.

 

[Aught3]

A book recommendation for the role of zen Buddhism in militaristic Japan during WWII - Zen at War by Brian Victoria

 

[Don-Sama]

Well cultures and religions go well together.. does a culture create the religion or does the religion create the culture? I do say both, they both are linked to make a product that in some cases can take crazy forms. So is it all religions fault? nah, but it does play a role.

no war has one cause, but always multiple reasons, to say america invaded iraq for oil is stupid, to say america invaded iraq to get rid of it's dictator is also stupid..