Iron man 3 rant (Spoilers and hate aplenty)

[Nemesiah]

Las chance; spoilers from here:

One thing that I hate more than a bad movie is a movie that could have been good, that should have been good and yet.... nothing.

First: I'm not an Ironman fan, I do not own the comic, I do not know the storylines so I will be ranting like a bitch about what I just saw and my very meager and mediocre understanding of movies, feel free to take me to school on both topics.

Iron man I and II were nice movies, the first one great the second one not so much but still a good time.
Iron man III is not a good movie, it is a rather mediocre one.
Dont get me wrong, the cast does the best with the material, the special effects were nice, the action scenes were entertaing but cocksucking christ was the writing bad!

Laster chance, hate starts here:

The mandarin? yeah, only a decoy, no such villain. Let's NOT put the most famous Iron villain in what is probably the last of the Ironman movies. Imagine how cheated you would have felt if in the last 5 minutes of the dark knight returns you were told the joker was actualy an acronim for a new arm of Lexcorp that targeted gotham as a weapons test area, yeah, pretty pissed. No magick rings, no crime organization, no nothing, just a dude in a costume. they had been setting up the 10 rings for the other 2 movies and for this? to get a cheap laugh?

Pepper Pots? lets give her super powers for 3 seconds so she kills the bad guy; Pepper pots was a good character BECAUSE she was the damsel in distress and yet, through sheer determination refuses to go batshit insane. Pepper was not worthy of the last punch she did not go on the adventure, she was there to be rescued, not to do what fucking IRONMAN couldn't do, good thing though they took their superpowers 3 seconds later so it was not character development, it was just idiotic lazy writting.

Don't know what to do with happy? make fun of him and then put him in a coma, yeah, daytime soap opera material here.

Eldrich? yeah, let´s makke him the most obvious villain in the first 3 minutes of the movie, don't want to save anything for later. I mean in hollywood if you have any sort of disability during a flash back, you are going to be a royal asshole by the end of the movie.

Cool bad chick has a chage of heart? what would happen to the character? will she become a beacon of peace for the avengers?... yeah.. not since she got shot in the chest as anticlimatically as possible.

Then there was the kid.... whenever I see a kid in a movie and it is not being kidnaped as motiviation for the hero I know I'm in for a bad time and sure enough the funny sidekid makes it appearence and this loathesome cunt has the audacity of actually helping Iron man. At which point did we need a fucking kid? a nerd helping him? maybe, but a kid? with the fucking dora the explorer watch?! I know Ironman has always had a funny bone to it but it was double entendre, not giggles for toddlers.

I went t see an IRONMAN movie, that means I want to see IRONMAN getting laid, kicking ass, and developing awesome technology, not the girlfriend killing the bad guy, the kid helping motherfucking Ironman, jarvis pounding the goons into submision, and the iroman computer figuring everything so I can explain the plot to those slow enough to have missed it.

Now Ironman has PTSD because of the events in new york. why? becouase fuck you, Ironman is not cool, his just a chum, yeah, just a chum like everybody else, NO! Ironman was not like this, he shouldn't be like this; end of the world? fuck you here is a quick comeback, shrapnell in the heart? fuck you that just fuels my revenge further. now, things etting too tough? my alchoholism shields me. Now he is frail, he needs to retire (Batman Failses anyone?)

About the lazy writing, the idiotic plot explainig device that solves the plot so that Ironman doesn't have to think, the fact that warmachine takes off while his best bud is getting pummeled, the cheap ass "lets make the armor not work for 3/4 of the movie, its like making a superman movie except that surprise! he has no powers, how exciting is watching a sperhero with no powers (or gadgets) for most of the movie.

The problem with the movie is the writing, plain and simple, they wanted to make a less awesome film (why I don't know) and humanize tony stark, the hero is the goddammned suit, the fact that Einstein's smart handsome cool rich cousin is inside it is just the icing on the cake. Iron man Is not about a guy coming to terms with his past, understandig what true love and responsability is or relating to his childhood through some mewling quim of a kid; it is about a dude in a suit being awesome, screwing broads and blowing bad guys to kingdom come.

Aaaanyway, once all of the bad gooey hate is of my chest (who am I kidding there is and endless supply) I can rejoin the ranks of those that come together for calm rational discussion.

And now

What did you think of Iron Man 3?

Best regards

Ed.

 

[Prolescum]

Heh, my bestest friend Mr Malaprop made much the same arguments about the Mandarin/Joker, but I thought it was pretty good (for an Iron Man film). Never been much for the character, really. Arrogant super-capitalists aren't generally sympathetic characters. I especially disliked the Ultimate universe Iron Man. Horrid little sod.

I think given the context of Stark's PTSD it's entirely valid to reflect upon the events in Avengers Assemble. The bit after the credits was pretty funny and serves as a nice little coda to that context.

As for Pepper getting powers... again, the context was appropriate; the serum (or whatever) was unstable in some subjects so the threat of her plight was planted adequately beforehand.

I actually thought the Mandarin bait and switch was hilarious.

I'll tell you what, though, the 3D was utterly pointless in this movie.

 

[australopithecus]

I went to see it last night and I completely disagree.

The Mandarin bait ans switch was brilliant (Ben Kingsley's performance was superb), and yes, it might be a low-brow, poor man's Goldstein, but I thought it was entirely appropriate.

Stark's PTSD given the events of The Avengers is understandable too. I mean he had resigned to sacrifice himself, and I don't imagine that comes stress free.

Pepper developing super powers was completely appropriate given the context. The only thing I had a problem with is how she became so familiar with how to use the Iron Man suit.

The Eldrich exposition was a little blatant, but I don't think it detracted from the plot.

The kid side-story was well done, and it made for some great comedy.

The thing I liked most was that for most of the time it wasn't an Iron Man film, it was Tony Stark. Running around with home-made gadgets being Bond. It allowed for some character development; when Cap asked what Stark would be without the suit in Avengers, well now we know. It was a nice insight into Stark.

I thought the film was brilliant. Roll on Avengers 2.

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Did we watch the same movie? I'm pretty sure that I watched the same one as Australopithacus and Prole... (In 2D, mind, Prole. Why did you watch in 3D?)

 

[Prolescum]

Did we watch the same movie? I'm pretty sure that I watched the same one as Australopithacus and Prole... (In 2D, mind, Prole. Why did you watch in 3D?)

Because my bestest pal Mr Malaprop ordered the tickets...

 

[forgotten observer]

I think a major problem with this film is a massive problem for people watching lots of films they perceive the film as simply a medium change of the source. This should never be done, you should take the film as an entirely different entity,Trying to fit iron man 3 into the place of the comic only weakens the mandarins character, however he is an entirely different character in the film and people should remember that. Take comic book fan mr repzion's reaction as an example, you can clearly see his frustration that the movie doesn't fit the comic, but why should it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z-PoNNxXsA

 

[Inferno]

I liked the film, but there were significant plot holes (the connection between the brain and the self-healing plant thing is never explained, for one) and the villains were crap (breathing fire? Really???). And when exactly did Pepper figure out how to use the suit?

However, I loved Ben Kingsley's performance. Genius.
I liked that Tony went up against the enemy all A-Team style.
The fact that the suits were worse than in IM1 and IM2 can also be explained: The guy did not sleep for 72 hours and has PTSD. I would be happy if I could fix myself a cup of joe in that state!
I once again loved the science parts. (Even if the brain part was pure BS.)

All in all: Not bad, but definitely not as good as 2 and certainly not as good as 1.

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Yes. Unless a film is specifically supposed to be a version of a pre-existing story, you should judge it on its own merits. These movies are new stories based roughly on the pre-existing character ideas, just as Christopher Nolan's Batman movies were. You shouldn't be expecting verbatim reconstructions any particular hero or villain.

 

[Nemesiah]

I think a major problem with this film is a massive problem for people watching lots of films they perceive the film as simply a medium change of the source. This should never be done, you should take the film as an entirely different entity,Trying to fit iron man 3 into the place of the comic only weakens the mandarins character, however he is an entirely different character in the film and people should remember that. Take comic book fan mr repzion's reaction as an example, you can clearly see his frustration that the movie doesn't fit the comic, but why should it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z-PoNNxXsA

... you can clearly see his frustration that the movie doesn't fit the comic, but why should it?

Emphasis mine

Because they were making an IRONMAN movie, I would have no qualms if they did the bait and switch on their own intellectual property, but since they drew crowds in part by using a well stablished character (one could argue however that Ironman grew as a result of the movies since it was a rather "meh..." character before) they made a tacit agreement that one would enjoy the supposed character's adventures in film form and part of the character are his enemies.

It is true that when a story changes media it is subjected to change, since more people contribute to it and it has to be re packaged to suit the new medium's audience, however this can be done in a tastefull maner or can be made in an "insulting to the original fans" manner. Ironman 3 was the latter.

In the lord of the rings, many scenes (like Tom Bombadill) were skipped, emphasis was given to Arwen's relationship with Strider (Aragorn), Gimli was made a mockery of himself (Fuck you Peter Jackson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) etc... BUT the plot was largely unchanged Frodo got the ring, he walked a good while, and then dumped the ring, this made most but the most rabid fans quite content.

Let's imagine now for a moment that Peter Jackson decided that Better than Sauron, or the Wraith king, the main bad guy should be this totally awesome Dark elf with twin katanas that could fly using a red dragon....... He could have done it, LOTR is not sacred scripture that can't be changed, BUT it would be a gigantic fuck you to the fans, people that had no Idea what LOTR was wouldn't have minded much and maybe even have liked the new 'Urdzt Do Dren' character, but it would have been in poor taste to tell people they were going to see a LOTR movie and then have them watch as Sauron turned up to be the acronym for an arm of Lexcorp research and development.

I found many failings with Ironman 3, but the destruction of the mandarin character was the worse and in poor taste, if they didn't want it in the movie, they could have glosed over it, and make the film about Eldrich who is in his own right an interesting (if rather cliche) villain. The destruction of the mandarin character was not necesary, it was really just a show of force by the writer and the director showing that they control the character now and can take a dump on many years of stablished fiction if they so choose to.

They didn't only change a character (this has been done many times sometimes for the better, others not so much so) but they decided to make a mockery of it, the idea of a figurehead being just a pupet is interesting,destroying a characters archnemesis for a joke is not.

 

[Nemesiah]

Yes. Unless a film is specifically supposed to be a version of a pre-existing story, you should judge it on its own merits. These movies are new stories based roughly on the pre-existing character ideas, just as Christopher Nolan's Batman movies were. You shouldn't be expecting verbatim reconstructions any particular hero or villain.

Granted, however in Nolan's movies The joker was changed to be from a silly demented person to a psychopathic fiend with a chaos manifesto. the change was not destructive to the character, In Ironman 3 the change was from an martiall arts expert with an army that also happend to have freaking laser beams in the rings to a clown. This change was destructive to the character, that is what pissed me off, not that they change it but what they changed it into. (and why in my opinion they did it)

 

[Prolescum]

Having read comics for decades, and having known dozens of other readers, I've yet to meet one who bought an Iron Man comic. Avengers, sure, but not Iron Man. Oh wait, possibly during Civil War, but that's only for completion I suspect.

Anyway, how many super geniuses can exist in the Marvel cinematic universe before cinema goers (not comic book fans) tell them to fuck off? The limits of plausibility are different in comics (just try explaining how time works in the Marvel universe).

It's a common complaint about adaptations (see: The Walking Dead, Lord of the Rings, 1984, War of the Worlds, Kick-Ass, Scott Pilgrim, Game of Thrones, blah blah blah), and it always comes down to it ain't the same as the book, which, as others have said in as many words, isn't really an argument. A film can never be a book, many of the narrative tropes aren't really compatible.
So Mandarin isn't Chinese or a super genius... Crimson Dynamo wasn't Stark's brother-from-another-mother; Potts isn't shagging Happy.

You're certainly entitled to hold the view that it was a travesty, but I get the impression that it may be a minority one.

Also, you're just plain wrong about Joker. There are dozens of versions, many of whom are quite like Nolan's. Particularly post-Miller; he's rarely written (or played) as Jack Nicholson (who was a fucking awful Joker. Except his looks, obviously).

 

[Nemesiah]

Having read comics for decades, and having known dozens of other readers, I've yet to meet one who bought an Iron Man comic. Avengers, sure, but not Iron Man. Oh wait, possibly during Civil War, but that's only for completion I suspect.

Anyway, how many super geniuses can exist in the Marvel cinematic universe before cinema goers (not comic book fans) tell them to fuck off? The limits of plausibility are different in comics (just try explaining how time works in the Marvel universe).

It's a common complaint about adaptations (see: The Walking Dead, Lord of the Rings, 1984, War of the Worlds, Kick-Ass, Scott Pilgrim, Game of Thrones, blah blah blah), and it always comes down to it ain't the same as the book, which, as others have said in as many words, isn't really an argument. A film can never be a book, many of the narrative tropes aren't really compatible.
So Mandarin isn't Chinese or a super genius... Crimson Dynamo wasn't Stark's brother-from-another-mother; Potts isn't shagging Happy.

You're certainly entitled to hold the view that it was a travesty, but I get the impression that it may be a minority one.

Also, you're just plain wrong about Joker. There are dozens of versions, many of whom are quite like Nolan's. Particularly post-Miller; he's rarely written (or played) as Jack Nicholson (who was a fucking awful Joker. Except his looks, obviously).

About the Joker: I'm not a big comic book fan (I mean I like them but I don't have a huge colection or anything like that) so ok, I remember the Joker being more of a goofy villain but certanly I'm not an expert.

Yes, I recognize that movies are not the book and thus are subject to change, this is ok by me.

I recognize that Ironman may be more popular (I believe it is the case) as a movie character than a comic book character so what happens in the movies may end up being more cannon than what happend in the comics.

BUT

it is not that they changed the mandarin, it is that they made it a non character, they didn't have to do it, they could have used any other villain, or invented a new one, however telling the fans that in ironman 3 there was going to be the mandarind (and having them drool over what would be an awesome fight and rivalry) just to have those expectation be deflated for a chuckle was in my opinion, a low blow, this topic is entirely subjective however so all I can do is say why I didn't like it, it will not make my position any more right or wrong.

 

[Prolescum]

From my perspective, using the character's mythology to "dupe" the audience and mirroring that within the film itself was a masterstroke. I don't believe he was a non-character, he was the breakout character

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

From my perspective, using the character's mythology to "dupe" the audience and mirroring that within the film itself was a masterstroke. I don't believe he was a non-character, he was the breakout character

Indeed. The scene where Stark breaks in and slowly figures out what's going on was a highlight of the film for me, and Ben Kingsley was obviously having loads of fun.

Also: I loved those late-70s/early-80s style credits!
Also Also: The post-credits scene was brilliant!

 

[australopithecus]

Just to confirm, Nicholson's Joker is shite.

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Just to confirm, Nicholson's Joker is shite.

I liked it when I was 15. Not sure when I last saw that movie...

 

[Nemesiah]

Just to confirm, Nicholson's Joker is shite.

At the time it wasn't all that bad but after Ledger's or Hamil's (which of those is better is an entire discussion in it of it self) it did fal into a rather sad 3rd place.

But Hamil's is better....