If I were to die...?

[richi1173]

If I were to die right now, would it really matter?

After all, the world has about 6 billion people and most of them are more important than I would ever be.

 

[obsidianavenger]

well it would really matter to you... because you would cease to exist in any coherent manner. do you really want to cut off the possibility of all future experience? think about it....

 

[richi1173]

well it would really matter to you... because you would cease to exist in any coherent manner. do you really want to cut off the possibility of all future experience? think about it....

Well, the way things are going for me, yes, that would be pleasant.

 

[Aught3]

What could be so bad that there is no chance of it improving in the future?

And it will matter to your friends, family, and colleagues.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Butterflies, dude.

 

[Niocan]

You'd miss the chance to experience the catalysts that this world has to offer; To give you experience which furthers your own evolution. I could also go into more spiritual reasons, if you'd like ;P.
There's 6 billion other people so if you don't like to be just one fish in a school, swim against the current

Of course, in the fish sense you're much safer in a school because the sea is rather harsh; But you're a Human, governed by your own choices alone.

 

[Giliell]

Globally, the world wouldn't give a damn.
Since there doesn't seem to be an afterlife, it wouldn't matter to you either
But it would matter greatly to those who love you and care for you.
That's why I always considered suicide a selfish option.

The only "imortality" there is is in the hearts of those who love you

 

[obsidianavenger]

Globally, the world wouldn't give a damn.
Since there doesn't seem to be an afterlife, it wouldn't matter to you either
But it would matter greatly to those who love you and care for you.
That's why I always considered suicide a selfish option.

The only "imortality" there is is in the hearts of those who love you

the self doesn't benefit from willful annihilation. i don't see how suicide is selfish at all. short sighted maybe...

also for the last bit, read "i am a strange loop" by douglas hofstadter; goes into some rambly fun about living on in the minds of loved ones

 

[Giliell]

the self doesn't benefit from willful annihilation. i don't see how suicide is selfish at all. short sighted maybe...

also for the last bit, read "i am a strange loop" by douglas hofstadter; goes into some rambly fun about living on in the minds of loved ones

Well, I think selfish is when all you have in mind is yourself and you're not considering the effects your deed has on others.
Since a suicide leaves those you love to struggle with the life you thought to be too tough to take, minus you, plus the grief of having lost you, I consider that selfish. If you commit suicide in a certain way, like throwing yourself in front of a train, that's even more selfish, because you draw a total stranger into the whole affair and leave them with the guilt of having killed you

 

[borrofburi]

well it would really matter to you...

Not precisely true. One cannot comprehend their own death (i.e. you can not be conscious of being dead), so being dead can not, by definition, matter to oneself. However, the dying part itself definitely matters, and it really sucks.

Globally, the world wouldn't give a damn.
Since there doesn't seem to be an afterlife, it wouldn't matter to you either
But it would matter greatly to those who love you and care for you.
That's why I always considered suicide a selfish option.

This needs to be emphasized, it hurts those who love you, those who are kind to you, and all those who you would have helped out. It's like punching your best friend in the face for inviting you over for dinner, or calling your grandmother a whore to her face for giving you an extra cookie. Obviously it's not motivated by those kind actions, but it is your response to them.To quote David Wong, "That's the thing, suicide has a way of only hurting the people who liked you. The people who hated you will forget your name in a month."

the self doesn't benefit from willful annihilation

The self can benefit from willful annihilation (to say it doesn't indicates you've either "never been there", or are not willing to give full credence to the idea); think of life like a mathematical formula, if you're neutral then your life at that moment is a 0, if you're really really happy your life at that moment is a large positive number, if you're really really unhappy your life at that moment is a large negative number. Now if you could somehow sum up all the moments in your life and find out that the result would be some gigantically large negative number, it would not necessarily be irrational to decide that non-existence is better than that.

The primary problem with this line of reasoning (aside from selfishly neglecting the harm you would do to those who love you, as well as the help you would deprive others of) is the old paradigm "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem", or, more precisely, if less succinctly, willful annihilation is an act that can't be undone that stems from the fundamentally flawed presumption that you *know* your own future. You don't. Having been there, you think you do, but you don't, life is just fucking weird and unpredictable like that. To quote David Wong again, "Life is a tricky thing to predict, that's the problem ... you don't know where the ride will to take you."



In summary, I could tell you that your life isn't as bad as you think it is, and I would probably be right, but you would also be right to think I don't know you, I don't know your life, I don't know how bad it is, and for those reasons I don't know if your life really is or isn't that bad, and I fully concede that point, your life could be that bad. However, there are a few problems with the whole concept of death as a solution: first, that whole dying bit really sucks (I can't seem to find my old scientific source on just how bad it really does suck to be dying); second, the people it hurts will be those people who were kind to you, the ones you care about most, and it will hurt them very much; and third, the rational basis behind suicide rests on the fundamentally flawed presumption that you know your own future (i.e. thoughts like "nothing in the future can make up for this" or "it won't ever get better"), which is simply just wrong. Suicide is painful, irrational, and hurts those who love you; and as such, I find it to be a poor option.

 

[Netheralian]

Well, I think selfish is when all you have in mind is yourself and you're not considering the effects your deed has on others.

I think it's a little inconsiderate to start labelling someone in an accusatory way when they are likely suffering from some form of depression. Especially someone that would think their problems are so bad that the only alternative to facing their problems is death.

 

[scalyblue]

Your property will be divided, your loved ones will move on, and you will be forgotten...I do not see any reason why anybody could wish to die and assure that fate sooner than later. I plan on enjoying the power to influence the world around me, however slight, as long as I am able.

 

[5810Singer]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP sounded very, very depressed.

Is this really a suitable thread for debate?

It sounded like a cry for help to me. Has anyone tried to contact the guy and see how he's doing?

Christmas is a time of despair for many people, I'm one of them, but it passes just like Winter.
The thing is that people commit suicide in times of despair, and then they don't see the end of Winter.

Does anyone here know the OP?
Can we help somehow?

 

[scalyblue]

If somebody's going to be "an hero," there's nothing that people on the 'net can do about it in either direction.

 

[borrofburi]

If somebody's going to be "an hero," there's nothing that people on the 'net can do about it in either direction.

Maybe. If he's like me (and I have no reason to think he is), then my above post, giving full credence to the idea of suicide, would have an effect. What we can not do and should not attempt to do is to force him to "get help", it's condescending and annoying and makes the annoying presumption that you *know* it's not a good idea, and you *know* what's best for him.

Of course, all that only applies if he's like me, I have no idea as to the effects on people who aren't like me.

 

[obsidianavenger]

The self can benefit from willful annihilation (to say it doesn't indicates you've either "never been there", or are not willing to give full credence to the idea); think of life like a mathematical formula, if you're neutral then your life at that moment is a 0, if you're really really happy your life at that moment is a large positive number, if you're really really unhappy your life at that moment is a large negative number. Now if you could somehow sum up all the moments in your life and find out that the result would be some gigantically large negative number, it would not necessarily be irrational to decide that non-existence is better than that.

i actually did that once >.<

not surprisingly the answer came out negatively, but you have to take into account the mindset of someone who would undertake such a project.

so yeah, i guess suicide can be selfish, but generally it only appears so due to distorted thought processes.

The primary problem with this line of reasoning (aside from selfishly neglecting the harm you would do to those who love you, as well as the help you would deprive others of) is the old paradigm "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem", or, more precisely, if less succinctly, willful annihilation is an act that can't be undone that stems from the fundamentally flawed presumption that you *know* your own future. You don't. Having been there, you think you do, but you don't, life is just fucking weird and unpredictable like that. To quote David Wong again, "Life is a tricky thing to predict, that's the problem ... you don't know where the ride will to take you."

...and i think this negates the whole calculus. at least in my experience, any predictions you make on your future happiness are almost guaranteed to be wrong.

 

[borrofburi]

The primary problem with this line of reasoning (aside from selfishly neglecting the harm you would do to those who love you, as well as the help you would deprive others of) is the old paradigm "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem", or, more precisely, if less succinctly, willful annihilation is an act that can't be undone that stems from the fundamentally flawed presumption that you *know* your own future. You don't. Having been there, you think you do, but you don't, life is just fucking weird and unpredictable like that. To quote David Wong again, "Life is a tricky thing to predict, that's the problem ... you don't know where the ride will to take you."

...and i think this negates the whole calculus. at least in my experience, any predictions you make on your future happiness are almost guaranteed to be wrong.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Giliell]

Well, I think selfish is when all you have in mind is yourself and you're not considering the effects your deed has on others.

I think it's a little inconsiderate to start labelling someone in an accusatory way when they are likely suffering from some form of depression. Especially someone that would think their problems are so bad that the only alternative to facing their problems is death.

I have compassion for everybody who's so desperate that they're considering to throw away the only thing there is, their life, needlessly. I would like to help any such person to find a new meaning in life, to see the light at the end of the tunnel and to life a happy and fulfilling life.
But I cannot ignore that such an action, if carried out, harms other people, especially those most dear to that very person. I have a friend whose father killed himself when we were in primary school, I've seen the results of such an action. Yes, he was in debt, yes, his wife didn't give a damn about him or the kid. So he killed himself. He hung himself in a wood and it was weeks before he was discovered.
Now, the debts didn't go away, the mother still didn't care about the daughter so all he had done was to change her life for the worse, the life of that one person he was most responsible for.

 

[MRaverz]

People make the mistake of thinking that things only 'matter' on one scale, that being the 'big picture'.

Sure in relation to the universe, everything is tiny and nothing matters because nothing effects the universe as a whole without being of similar size. The same would go for time. Yet on smaller scales, smaller things matter more.

It's all about concentrating on the details within the 'big picture' rather than struggling to take in what that 'big picture' is displaying.

If I were religious, I would state that an artist will put more care and attention into the tiniest details rather than to the end picture because they know that the big picture is merely a complex combination of tiny strokes of paint. Being non-religious I would argue that whether or not those tiny strokes of paint were consciously put there, they are still there and they still combine to make something quite spectacular.

 

[MillionSword]

well it would really matter to you... because you would cease to exist in any coherent manner. do you really want to cut off the possibility of all future experience? think about it....

I would disagree, and say that it wouldn't matter to him because he would cease to exist. It's a state in which nothing can cause you pain. You can't even feel guilty about how it affects your loved ones.