High School Teacher Proselytizes to my Class

[scalyblue]

I'd just tape record it and email it to CNN, in the fallout the guy will probably get fired or assigned to another school where he will have to reeech those keeds

 

[borrofburi]

I think the next question we need answering is your social status with your friends and family and how that relates to your lack of religion. Namely, do your friends and family know you aren't religious, and do they support you in that? Are they religious or not?

 

[FatStupidAmerican]

I had the same problem in high school, my English teacher assigned the Bible to read because of it's literary content.

 

[borrofburi]

I had the same problem in high school, my English teacher assigned the Bible to read because of it's literary content.

Which is kind of ironic, considering:

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I have a different idea... you should answer tons of questions and interject as often as possible in class. Every time there's an opportunity, raise your hand and say something. The fun part is that you need to tie everything back to something completely unrelated to the class, like Monty Python, or Megan Fox. When the teacher calls you out on it, you say that he inspired you with all his random talk about religion, and you can't help but tie everything to something YOU care about that has fuck all to do with the class.

 

[NateHevens]

Is this a school in the USA?

Yes. Sorry, I meant to mention that in my post. I live in Kansas City, Missouri.

Hate to say it, but you're probably fucked. Kansas City is pretty known to be backwards. The whole system may support the teacher. You may have to bring it out of being a state conflict and into being a nation-wide conflict if you want any support.

I promise you that you aren't the only kid having trouble there, and that teacher is not the only teacher. I'll bet the principle not only knows about it, but endorses the teacher, and probably so does the School Board.

Don't get me wrong... if you have a chance, go for it. But the school is in Kansas City. You're not gonna find a lot of support.

 

[HumanityFtw]

I think the next question we need answering is your social status with your friends and family and how that relates to your lack of religion. Namely, do your friends and family know you aren't religious, and do they support you in that? Are they religious or not?

Well, my father knows and accepts that I am an atheist, so I would have his support if it came to that. I have about four other friends that are all in different class periods of his that are all documenting his sayings as best as they can, so I have all their support as well.

 

[RestrictedAccess]

You go to an American school, I'm assuming. Record his religious lectures, copy them, and take one to the school board. The teacher isn't legally allowed to proselytize, as far as I know, and he can lose his job if he doesn't knock it off. He's being paid to teach you, not perform a sermon.

 

[JustWyrdJamie]

All the advice given here is great . . . Now I'm just waiting to hear how you choose to use it and the results.



Oh, and the Kansas being backwards thing: You just keep going to the next level of educational authority if the locals choose not to listen.

 

[NateHevens]

Oh, and the Kansas being backwards thing: You just keep going to the next level of educational authority if the locals choose not to listen.

He'll have to go federal. The whole Upper-Mid West is backwards for the most part (note that "for the most part"... not everybody, just a lot of people).

If he manages to do something about it without going higher then State, or, even more "miraculously", staying local, then it'd be beyond incredible. But I doubt it...

 

[HumanityFtw]

bump

 

[DrunkCat]

How insightful.

 

[Don-Sama]

maybe reading some stories form the bible will be a nice way to get him out of his hole, the sex stories, and genocide stories that is.

 

[Nogre]

the sex stories

Like the ones ZOMGitsCriss brought up in this video? :lol:



"See, now that's what I call Bible hot man-on-man lovin'!" I love it!

 

[creamcheese]

I think the next question we need answering is your social status with your friends and family and how that relates to your lack of religion. Namely, do your friends and family know you aren't religious, and do they support you in that? Are they religious or not?

Well, my father knows and accepts that I am an atheist, so I would have his support if it came to that. I have about four other friends that are all in different class periods of his that are all documenting his sayings as best as they can, so I have all their support as well.

Provided you have sufficient evidence and a good case, I would contact the ACLU and ask them to file a federal suit on your behalf. Make sure it is a federal suit, as your state may not have constitutional guarantees of separation of church and state. Any competent federal judge would rule in your favor if you can show he was espousing religion in the classroom, or in any other organ of the state.

 

[TurboDally]

I'd record it firstly without him knowing before you do it openly. Christian soldiers indeed...

 

[stratos]

Well call me crazy but from the quotes in the OP I think he isn't doing anything wrong. Nor would I as atheist have anything against the things he says.
He expresses his own faith, and perhaps assumes a bit too much about his students, but in all fairness, the majority of the OP's class seems to believe as well.

But I also noticed that in none of this quotes he states any absolutes, in the one case were he does, it is describes that he actually apologises. In all the other examples he poses it as a question or explicitly states it as his own opinion.

Asking if people believe in god, well personally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but if it buggers people you could always comment that you would like to abstain from answering.

Discussing subjects of religion or using religious texts in a non-religious course is murky waters. It really depends on how it is used. Personally I am for the idea that combining multiple disciplines in various classes helps with learning, and this is certainly not excluding religious studies. However, that of course only applies when said content is handled in an objective and correct manner. In no way should it be used to preach the gospel as it where.

But to iterate, I would have no problem with a literature teacher using a passage out of the bible for a text study and also discussing the meaning of the text in philosophical and historical context.

Now in the OP's example of a brave new world, I do not think that taking offence to observations that you can't say "god" any more in a public school, but we can enjoy violence and sex in our homes is justified. Because in all fairness, that is a very valid point which could result in a very interesting discussion about moral standards. I would even say the comment applies to the problem the OP seems to be having with this teacher. Annoyed with a teacher who does not hide the fact that he believes, yet (and this I of course have to assume) will probably not blink at the sight of 10 dozen people getting shot to bits in your average action movie.

Now perhaps I simply come from a different background, where teachers give you facts and information and discuss those as a way to make you think about them. Or at least for the non scientific courses anyway. Math is pretty much math everywhere But social sciences and such.

 

[borrofburi]

Well call me crazy but from the quotes in the OP I think he isn't doing anything wrong. Nor would I as atheist have anything against the things he says.
He expresses his own faith, and perhaps assumes a bit too much about his students, but in all fairness, the majority of the OP's class seems to believe as well.

But I also noticed that in none of this quotes he states any absolutes, in the one case were he does, it is describes that he actually apologises. In all the other examples he poses it as a question or explicitly states it as his own opinion.

The questions he asks are the same ones my friends ask when proselytizing, as well as what the sermon sounded like when I was in church recently. Also if I were to say something similar only with an anti-religious spin you bet christians would be up in arms about it. Also it's a question of church and state, can a teacher saying these things be seen as endorsing religion? I think it does...

Asking if people believe in god, well personally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but if it buggers people you could always comment that you would like to abstain from answering.

I have a major problem with this (a bit less so with the other stuff). What if instead of "who believes in god" it was "who here is gay?" what if it was "who here is a republican?", what if it had been in the deep south, a fishing expedition for who next to stone? These are things students should not have to openly declare, nor should they have to lie and "hide them" for they are simply not things that are relevant to teaching and serve to isolate and even alienate students as well as a teacher can't possibly discriminate if the teacher doesn't know these things.

Abstaining from personal questions in most situations can not be done without admitting that you don't agree with the majority (even harder when you're the only one), so that's no different than outright declaring it.

 

[stratos]

Well call me crazy but from the quotes in the OP I think he isn't doing anything wrong. Nor would I as atheist have anything against the things he says.
He expresses his own faith, and perhaps assumes a bit too much about his students, but in all fairness, the majority of the OP's class seems to believe as well.

But I also noticed that in none of this quotes he states any absolutes, in the one case were he does, it is describes that he actually apologises. In all the other examples he poses it as a question or explicitly states it as his own opinion.

The questions he asks are the same ones my friends ask when proselytizing, as well as what the sermon sounded like when I was in church recently. Also if I were to say something similar only with an anti-religious spin you bet christians would be up in arms about it. Also it's a question of church and state, can a teacher saying these things be seen as endorsing religion? I think it does...

Unless the person in question is an vicar, priest or monk, etc.. there is no issue of church and state there. There is certainly a matter of professionalism to be asked from teachers in these matters. But I think it is wrong to deny people their faith for the duration of their employment hours.
However, I chose my position based on the quotes in the original post. Which I don't interpreted as trying to convert anyone. As I've detailed in my previous post, if such subjects are used in a preaching way then it is clearly wrong.

Asking if people believe in god, well personally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but if it buggers people you could always comment that you would like to abstain from answering.

I have a major problem with this (a bit less so with the other stuff). What if instead of "who believes in god" it was "who here is gay?" what if it was "who here is a republican?", what if it had been in the deep south, a fishing expedition for who next to stone? These are things students should not have to openly declare, nor should they have to lie and "hide them" for they are simply not things that are relevant to teaching and serve to isolate and even alienate students as well as a teacher can't possibly discriminate if the teacher doesn't know these things.

Abstaining from personal questions in most situations can not be done without admitting that you don't agree with the majority (even harder when you're the only one), so that's no different than outright declaring it.

Discrimination on base of religion or in this case non-religion is bad. Asking if people believe in god is totally fine.

If you can not openly talk about your religion (or lack there of) because of fear of persecution. you have bigger problems in your society, and there would be no shame in hiding it. (although ultimately hiding it will of course bring very little change)

 

[Nogre]

But I think it is wrong to deny people their faith for the duration of their employment hours.

At the point where people entrust their kids to a teacher to be taught and regarded as a trusted authority, they should keep religion out of it, period. They shouldn't have to deny their faith, but they shouldn't bring it up themselves, and should only mention it if directly asked. Infusing it into your lectures is most definitely not right.

However, I chose my position based on the quotes in the original post. Which I don't interpreted as trying to convert anyone. As I've detailed in my previous post, if such subjects are used in a preaching way then it is clearly wrong.

Well, looking through the quotes a second time, several of them are leading questions, which imply a specific answer, which are just as bad (in my opinion) as simply stating the answer you want. Giving someone the option to disagree does nothing to reduce the impact of the statement implied within the question, especially when that someone is a teacher and is meant to be trusted as an authority on the subject matter. The rest of his quotes seemed completely unnecessary for teaching the salient material, so they shouldn't have been made.

Discrimination on base of religion or in this case non-religion is bad. Asking if people believe in god is totally fine.

If you can not openly talk about your religion (or lack there of) because of fear of persecution. you have bigger problems in your society, and there would be no shame in hiding it. (although ultimately hiding it will of course bring very little change)

But why should this be asked? Unless religion is a necessary part of a class (such as history; you just can't understand history without understanding how religion contributed to it), it simply shouldn't be brought up. And even then, the ideas it offers should be explained, the students' and teacher's religion should never come into it.

And unfortunately, we do have this problem in society in many areas. It's a reason to try to get rid of the persecution, sure, but that's not a reason people should be able to out atheists with something like "raise your hand if you believe in god."