Has Anyone Ever Changed a Creatioinst's Mind?

[bruhaha2]

It has had to have happened before.

Note: this is not a question asking "Has anyone ever de-converted someone else before?"

I'm asking if anyone has argued with someone over creationism and evolution, providing irrefutable proof to the point where they simply say, "Wow, I didn't know that." Or perhaps they came back to you later and said, "I did research on my own and found too much evidence to deny evolution."

I know I've never seen that on the internets...

 

[IrBubble]

That has never happened to me. I only correct people in the public, in hope of saving other from delusion rather than to deconvert the idiot in question. If they're posting/making videos / whatever about it they're allready convinced that they are right. And besides, they will never consider the possibility that "god dun it" isn't a real deus ex machina (sorry for the "pun")

 

[Otokogoroshi]

This would be nice to do... but... typically a person who holds an irrational idea can't be swayed from it. Conspiracy theorists tend to be just as fervent if not more so than creationists. They have that opinion because of emotional reasons not logical ones... after all if they came to them through logic they wouldn't have them in the first place!! haha

 

[JacobEvans]

Yes I have. It's easier when they are other teenagers like me, they tend to be more accepting of new ideas.

 

[theatheistguy]

See I'm not so sure it's possible, because in my experience even when you completely destroy an argument of theirs, they'll not admit it (not even to themselves it seems) and just jump to another crappy argument.

 

[ladiesman391]

I find that full on creationists are akin to drug addicts (I have known a few drug addicts in my time), your only really capable of helping to them to quit if they want to, if they don't want to, you don't stand a chance (unless you force them to, but then they are highly likely to just re-offend once they get their freedom back).

 

[Zylstra]

You can lead a YEC to evidence, but you can't make it think. They usually start yelling loudly about who the fuck knows and do all they can to avoid actually considering the evidence

 

[borrofburi]

I have not. However I was a tentative YEC and a semi-strong C for a while, but my AP Biology teacher ended up changing my mind. She gave a speech on the first day about how she didn't care whether or not we believed in evolution, we would learn it. If we could pass the tests then we would do well in her class, even if we continued to not believe in evolution. That knowledge of the theory and how it worked and the evidence for it were all that mattered for her class, and that belief was entirely irrelevant and would stay out of her class.

She then proceeded to be an amazing instructor, starting at the scientific method and working up from there, showing what the theory of evolution is and why it's not a hypothesis, and then we went on and applied that theory to every section of biology.

The only thing I think she might have done wrong was she presented us with an article "evolution is fact" in which the opening line was "people often say evolution is a theory not a fact. But it is a fact." And it went from there. It was an alright article, but could have served to unnecessarily alienate students.

To be fair though, I had no problem with evolution, and indeed was fond of taking the argument that "god did it through evolution", with the exception of humans. So I approached it with the idea of "finally I'll have enough information to win the evolution debate AND the creation debate [I like to be able to win both sides]". The only thing I had a hard time accepting was that Man also evolved.

See I'm not so sure it's possible, because in my experience even when you completely destroy an argument of theirs, they'll not admit it (not even to themselves it seems) and just jump to another crappy argument.

This is perfectly natural, even among intellectually honest and "open minded" people. If someone were to completely destroy one of your arguments against creation or for evolution you too would move on... Err, at least I would. I would later think about it more and possibly consult with others about what they thought, and maybe eventually realize I was wrong. But people's opinions change slowly. Even when I had only a slight affinity for creationism, it took the course of an entire (err part of, probably not the entire, it was a while back this happened) semester for me to change my mind even with little loyalty for creationism.

 

[IrBubble]

The only thing I think she might have done wrong was she presented us with an article "evolution is fact"

Evolution is a fact though, the theory of evolution is the explanation of that fact. Sorry to nitpick :/

 

[JacobEvans]

It's possible. Not all YEC are the same, some are just really misguided and never actually heard an opposing argument to their beliefs.

 

[borrofburi]

Evolution is a fact though, the theory of evolution is the explanation of that fact. Sorry to nitpick :/

Oh I don't disagree, I just think it was unnecessarily alienating.

 

[GoodKat]

Only in person, and only during friendly discussion that wasn't originally about religion or evolution.

 

[ladiesman391]

The only thing I had a hard time accepting was that Man also evolved.

Why do people find this so hard to accept, after I had learnt about evolution I remember walking around the streets, the city, the shops or wherever and pictured people as apes, I asked a friend "do you ever picture people as if they were apes, like that guy driving the car, what if he had never shaved or never wore clothes (we are born naked after all) and had a slightly more pronounced eyebrow?" my friend looked at me with astonishment and said flat out "NO!" and made me feel like an alien, but to me it just seemed natural that we have evolved from apes, there are huge differences between us definitely, but there are just so many similarities (which can't be ignored) as well. I can even see significant similarities between me and my dog in both behavior and physical appearance. It seems some people (naturally) just look at the differences and focus their minds on that but fail to focus on any of the similarities at the same time.

 

[Marcus]

Just to nitpick, it doesn't take any imagination whatsoever to imagine people as apes, since we are apes.

 

[ladiesman391]

Just to nitpick, it doesn't take any imagination whatsoever to imagine people as apes, since we are apes.

Exactly, but some people just can't make that connection in their brain, I think more study into nuerotheology could help us identify exactly what it is inhibiting people and how it can be corrected, it would be amazing to be able to just flick a switch in someones mind and BOOM no more inhibition.

"inhibitor (plural inhibitors)
(chemistry) Any substance capable of stopping or slowing a specific chemical reaction." - Wikipedia

 

[Icefire9atla]

There was a study showing that in people of conservative ideology, if you debunk a claim, the persons beleif in that claim only grows stronger, and it would have been better to do nothing.

This not only explains to stubborness of creationists, but also the birther conspiracy and the "Obama is a muslim" crowd.

 

[ladiesman391]

There was a study showing that in people of conservative ideology, if you debunk a claim, the persons beleif in that claim only grows stronger, and it would have been better to do nothing.

This not only explains to stubborness of creationists, but also the birther conspiracy and the "Obama is a muslim" crowd.

Icefire9atla have you seen my thread. That study would be good on it if you have a link to it...

 

[borrofburi]

Why do people find [man evolving from apes] so hard to accept?

For me it was a combination of wanting to think of "man" as special (especially since I was still theist at the time), and years and years of indoctrination.

I share(d) my experiences with you(all) in order to help you understand other current creationists. I'm not sure precisely where the differences between me and them lie, probably in some combination of an excellent APBIO teacher and being an extremely logical person, but I think if you want to change a creationist's mind you must first understand them. I think a failure of empathy, a failure to understand your opponent's position in a debate, is nigh the highest form of intellectual dishonesty, or at the very least one of the highest forms of intellectual failure.

 

[ladiesman391]

For me it was a combination of wanting to think of "man" as special (especially since I was still theist at the time), and years and years of indoctrination.

"Man" is still special I don't think we need a religion (or no religion) to tell us that, as thunderf00t said to Ray Comfort "the future is bright".
I have never experienced indoctrination myself, do you think it's had a huge impact on your life? Would you be opposed to having an age limit on religion, as in until you are an adult (18 or 21) you are, by law, not allowed to practice religion or attend church or any such thing, and it would also be illegal for an adult to teach a child about such things?

I think if you want to change a creationist's mind you must first understand them. I think a failure of empathy, a failure to understand your opponent's position in a debate, is nigh the highest form of intellectual dishonesty, or at the very least one of the highest forms of intellectual failure.

I agree with you and I'm constantly updating my understanding the more people I converse with (I'm also studying communications at uni), however I think most creationists fall into the "intellectual dishonesty" and "intellectual failure" categories more often than most atheists. If you can understand an atheist viewpoint (and the evidence that goes with it, and the lack thereof for a God) I think it's hard not to be one, you would be making an unreasonable, illogical and irrational decision if you chose to oppose it and debate it.

 

[JRChadwick]

Once, I think. Not really a dedicated Creationist, just someone who had listen to some hype about evolution being in doubt. I answered a couple of his questions and gave him a list of YouTube channels to check out.