Great Questions to ask creationists...

[Anachronous Rex]

Err... Define Evolution in its Biological Context...?

 

[Frenger]

Err... Define Evolution in its Biological Context...?

That COULD be your catchphrase

 

[Vaper]

Hi all first post here.

My question?

If God knows everything, how is it possible for me to have free will?

 

[Laurens]

1. Did Noah take fish on the ark?

[If you answered no please proceed to question 2]

2.Was the flood water salt water or fresh water?

[If you answered 'fresh water' please proceed to question 3, if you answered 'salt water' please proceed to question 4]

3. What happened to all the salt water fish when they were inundated with fresh water?

4. What happened to all the fresh water fish when they were inundated with salt water?

 

[Frenger]

1. Did Noah take fish on the ark?[\quote]

Yes

 

[Laurens]

Yes

That's not what it says in the Bible...

 

[malicious_bloke]

Can I get fries with that?

 

[Frenger]

Yes

That's not what it says in the Bible...

Out of interest, what does it say about fish? I have read that book and that bit passed me by.

 

[KittenKoder]

Out of interest, what does it say about fish? I have read that book and that bit passed me by.

It doesn't. You didn't miss anything.

 

[Laurens]

Out of interest, what does it say about fish? I have read that book and that bit passed me by.

I'm pretty sure it was just land animals, but perhaps I'm wrong...

 

[Gnug215]

Hi all first post here.

My question?

If God knows everything, how is it possible for me to have free will?

Hi there, and welcome aboard!

It's a good question, and I haven't really heard a good answer to it.

And I have heard a few. It's not like theists and apologists don't have answers to it. It's just that they're usually quite weird.

I suppose the "best" answers usually have to do with God knowing all possible future outcomes, but the actual choice is still ours. Yeah, it's a pretty lame copout to be sure, but at least that response addresses the logical inconsistency of omniscience vs. free will.

 

[Dean]

Hi all first post here.

My question?

If God knows everything, how is it possible for me to have free will?

Hi there, and welcome aboard!

It's a good question, and I haven't really heard a good answer to it.

And I have heard a few. It's not like theists and apologists don't have answers to it. It's just that they're usually quite weird.

I suppose the "best" answers usually have to do with God knowing all possible future outcomes, but the actual choice is still ours. Yeah, it's a pretty lame copout to be sure, but at least that response addresses the logical inconsistency of omniscience vs. free will.

I don't see how it's a cop-out. There is a difference between saying that god exists and he knows your future, and saying god exists and he CAUSES your future. It's still free. You still had no less choice, even though God obivously knew the outcome - and I say this as an atheist.

But of course there are other complications, because there are theists (including some subsets of Christianity) who do believe that everything happens at god's will. Heh.

 

[malicious_bloke]

I don't see how it's a cop-out. There is a difference between saying that god exists and he knows your future, and saying god exists and he CAUSES your future. It's still free. You still had no less choice, even though God obivously knew the outcome - and I say this as an atheist.

But of course there are other complications, because there are theists (including some subsets of Christianity) who do believe that everything happens at god's will. Heh.

I see it is as more a conflict of the combination of omniscience AND omnibenevolence vs free will.

An all-seeing, all-loving God who knows from the moment of your conception what choices you are going to make with your "free will" is struck with his/hers/its/their own paradox in the case of someone who's life choices will lead to eternal damnation. To intervene and save you from hell nullifies the concept of free will, the lack of intervention means God knowingly allows you to eternally damn yourself (hardly an omnibenevolent act) and any other combination of the inability to know or act on your behalf are incompatible with the general portrayal of God.

The common attributes applied to God are entirely self-refuting when faced with the concepts of hell and free-will

 

[Gnug215]

I don't see how it's a cop-out. There is a difference between saying that god exists and he knows your future, and saying god exists and he CAUSES your future. It's still free. You still had no less choice, even though God obivously knew the outcome - and I say this as an atheist.

But of course there are other complications, because there are theists (including some subsets of Christianity) who do believe that everything happens at god's will. Heh.

I see it is as more a conflict of the combination of omniscience AND omnibenevolence vs free will.

An all-seeing, all-loving God who knows from the moment of your conception what choices you are going to make with your "free will" is struck with his/hers/its/their own paradox in the case of someone who's life choices will lead to eternal damnation. To intervene and save you from hell nullifies the concept of free will, the lack of intervention means God knowingly allows you to eternally damn yourself (hardly an omnibenevolent act) and any other combination of the inability to know or act on your behalf are incompatible with the general portrayal of God.

The common attributes applied to God are entirely self-refuting when faced with the concepts of hell and free-will

Eeexactly.

 

[Frenger]

I'd refer to my hero Mr Hitchens for this:

"Of course we have free will, the boss insists on it"

 

[Visaki]

Out of interest, what does it say about fish? I have read that book and that bit passed me by.

I'm pretty sure it was just land animals, but perhaps I'm wrong...

Animals that breath with their nostrils? I think I remember it having something to do with nostrils. Which would bring us to... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_whale

If god created man from dirt, why is there still dirt?

:lol: A bit specific counter question but still priceless. Not to mention the good old Howind classic "Creationists believe in the beginning God, evolutionists believe in the beginning Dirt" (not a direct quote but blah).

 

[FiverBeyond]

Some of my favorites for the ID crowd:


What fossil evidence would falsify intelligent design?

Is there anything that can be shown to NOT be intelligently designed?

 

[KittenKoder]

I don't like posting such things, because then it's like knowing what they'll start off with. But I do have few I like to ask that tends to make them start to wonder:

1. Why would any father wish to kill their offspring the way your god does?

They'll answer with the preprogrammed responses, but in their hearts, hearing that crafts horrible images in their minds of suffering and torture.

2. What is the moral of Elisha's tale and how is a painful death of children justified?

This one is very often misunderstood by many, literalists even. They seem to ignore 2 Kings 2:24 "cursed them in the name of the LORD" .... he broke a commandment there, yeah, the third commandment "Thou shalt not take The Name of The Lord thy God in vain; for The Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain" Exodus 20:7. So this tale is even more twisted when looking at it in this light, this god had children killed in a bloody and painful way, just because he used the "name" in cursing them.

I pointed this out to the preachers that were teaching in church when I was about 10, maybe a bit younger. The look of horror on their face for a split second was priceless, even they had missed the connection there. But more importantly is also means that they will be held accountable for every person they curse in their god's name, even if the other person was breaking a tenet of the religion. So for the true believer, they know they screwed up, for the lesser believer their faith will be shaken at how another person could be made to suffer, then you be doomed to suffer just for wishing them dead if they do die. For them, there is no way to counter this correlation, none at all. Unlike facts and reality, even if they are right and their god exists, most of them have done just what Elisha has and cursed someone in the name of their god. This is the same as murdering them ... yourself.

 

[tuxbox]

Hi all first post here.

My question?

If God knows everything, how is it possible for me to have free will?

The Jewish/Christian God does not know everything.

Genesis 22:12 (NIV)

"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

Genesis 18:20-21 (NIV)

Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

 

[tuxbox]

Is the Christian Bible the infallible word of God and should the passages within be taken literally?

If yes, do you hate your mother and father?

Luke 14:26 (NIV)

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters,yes, even their own life,such a person cannot be my disciple."