From passive debunking to active demonstration

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

The general way most people adress the creationist theme is almost invariably to take the roll of debunking on the lossy anti-evolution propaganda that can easily landslide just by nudging the sholders and say "That is not exactly what we meant" (because as we all well know they never define their therms) or simply because the issue adressed is not easily intuitive. But there is another way to adress this, whenever intuitively easily demonstrated points (not debunking) are presented they are forced to receed and admit (has not even they can,´t deny obviouse such has the earth is round, except for some few nutcases) as it has hapened whit creationist stating "No Evolution period" to "Micro Evolution hapens but not the rest".

What I propouse is to actively demonstrate Evolution in easy understandable steps suported by current available data in away that is as obviouse and undenyable as the earth is round.
I personaly have an idea for a script to actually do so in a video but I have few problems on actually achieving the necessary quality and so i will requier some help. My computer has recently fried and I'm currently using a not so promptly acessible computer with questionable capacity which makes me uncapable to preform any seriouse work in a practible time, secondly I don't posses any where near a good video production skills to make a work whit quality enough that this may actually deserve.
Thirdly I may requier some help on finding some good sources related to laboratorie guided evolution and naturaly observed instances of evolution (the most blatant the better), the help of a Biologist or some one more educated in biology then I do would be excelent.

I personaly encourage any one with good skills to idependently take the roll of active demonstration in simple steps.
1. Prove that Evolution does happen in blatant demonstratable and reproduceable laboratory condition, and show that at this point Evolution is a valid theoryeven if it is only aplyed in laboratorie instances
2. Extend the scope of aplication by showing that evolution doesn't only happen in laboratory conditions but also in several well documented Natural instances, and show at this point that even if creationism was true that Naturally ocuring Evolution does happen and it is valid.
(this points 1 and 2 can be done in an undenyable fashion, sense they are very well document and it has actually been unquestionably observed)
3. (perhapsthe hardest part) Extend the scope of aplication again by showing that evolution is not an exception but the rule, and that every higher organism haven't allways been there but they are in fact derived from lower forms of life. And show clearly with examples that we can even see today trasitions between animal realms that many consider to be seperate (such as land catfish). And show because the premiss that "all present form animals have allways been there" is false that creationism (that makes such statment) is false.

I believe that this put in the right way it could be a very powerfull anti-anti-evolution-propaganda.

 

[Pulsar]

Good idea, MGK.. Maybe you can contact DonExodus2, AronRa or cdk007, they might send you some of the material they used for their videos.

On a similar note, I'd like to plea again for our own 'Encyclopedia of Reason', where we gather as much information as we can to debunk the standard creationist claims. Our own little wikipedia, a bit like talkorigins, with links to the videos of our distinguished youtubers. Something we can all contribute to, and use as an easy reference guide for future debates with creationists.

 

[IrBubble]

Firstly, very good idea MKG, I'm afraid I can be of (very) little help to you, but I wish you good luck atleast .

On a similar note, I'd like to plea again for our own 'Encyclopedia of Reason', where we gather as much information as we can to debunk the standard creationist claims. Our own little wikipedia, a bit like talkorigins, with links to the videos of our distinguished youtubers. Something we can all contribute to, and use as an easy reference guide for future debates with creationists.

I have to say these kinds of things can be a bit dangerous, as having a wiki ran by people with an agenda can end up a bit like this bullshit. Of course this could prove to be a very useful place where the more scientificly litterate people could post relevant peer-reviewed papers and perhaps explain how they are relevant etc.

 

[Pulsar]

I have to say these kinds of things can be a bit dangerous, as having a wiki ran by people with an agenda can end up a bit like this bullshit. Of course this could prove to be a very useful place where the more scientificly litterate people could post relevant peer-reviewed papers and perhaps explain how they are relevant etc.

I wouldn't necessarily want to make such a highly exposed website (besides, talkorigins is excellent), but more some sort of internal reference guide between ourselves. Like: if a creationist brings up this or that, what should you answer? I think we're at the point where Tf00t, ArorRa and all the others have pretty much tackled every standard issue. It might be a good idea to make some sort of index, to organise the info we have, and perhaps making some written transcripts. I've often been confronted with a creationist claim, thinking "I remember DonExodus2 talking about this, but I don't recall which video it was...". And most importantly, it would be fun

 

[e2iPi]

I have to say these kinds of things can be a bit dangerous, as having a wiki ran by people with an agenda can end up a bit like this bullshit.

I'm not so sure that would be a big problem. In general the community of rationalists has a very low tolerance for bullshit, even if it serves to support our ideas.

Of course this could prove to be a very useful place where the more scientificly litterate people could post relevant peer-reviewed papers and perhaps explain how they are relevant etc.

Of course, being who we are, any refutation of creationists claims would include a bibliography.

BTW, we should probably put a warning on that link. I followed it and almost had an aneurysm trying to read the "article of the year" on evolution.

I^2

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Ok this is some what taking of but I still need some help to find ressources of actual work done in the area that clearly establishes each of the points i'm presenting. I will try to contact DonExodus2, AronRa and cdk007 which will be some what of a problem sinc they are popular and have their mail boxes stuffed full.
I can upload a part of the video to show where I am going, but it is going to be private as I don't want some one to pick on it in an imcoplete stage, I will have to close it down so no reasonble point against it can be made. If some one wants to take a look send me a message.