Freedom of the internet, or the end of it.

[Don-Sama]

Today a verdict was released of a lawsuit from an organisation that wanted the dutch goverment to block thepiratebay.
They succeeded.
(more info: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...provides-perfect-climate-for-drama-llamas.ars)

Even though the piratebay has already been sold and now tries to legalize everything it's still getting blocked!
(http://mashable.com/2009/06/30/breaking-the-pirate-bay-sold-for-7-8-million/)

I'm furious at this! and it makes me think, what will happen next? what sites will get blocked? what will be cencored? what will remain of true freedom on the internet?
more and more monitoring programs are being designed, that will let goverments controll the internet in that country completely. allready in china an extreem amount of sites are being blocked. iran also blocked many sites during the protests, and wanted to completely put the internet offline for some time.
The danger in this is that the freedom of everything u can do on the internet, the sources of news, community's, games, music.
Could be completely destroyed, free speech could be destroyed. What countries will block the beliefs of others, what countries will block the sources of science so that it better suits their view of the world. what clips will be blocked because it ''insults'' someone beliefs?


My question is, how far do u think the goverment has the right to interfere on the internet?
On the one site is freedom, on the other side safety, however it's not like u can die from the internet....

(for the anti-downloaders: http://torrentfreak.com/why-pirates-buy-more-music-and-music-labels-fail-090428/)

Edit: downloading inn the netherlands isn't against the law, it's totally legal! this is another weird thing about the verdict. copyright stealing is illigal, but downloading it for non-profitable uses it not. (everyone does do it, knowingly or unknowingly, even the organisation who wanted the site to get blocked has a picture on their site that is illigally there).
~Don

 

[Netheralian]

They were trying to do worse in Aus -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia

In particular look at the section Topics Targeted for Sensorship. (Australia doesn't have an R rating for computer games so anything that Doesn't fit the MA15+ is outright banned.)

I hope they don't block the pirate bay in the netherlands - I often use it!

 

[Don-Sama]

Dam, that's really harsh.
and well I haven't been using piratebay for a while, other similar sites now do what the pirate bay once did.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

It is hard to see your point based on actions against a criminal enterprise. There's no "free speech" involved with stealing copyrighted materials.

 

[MRaverz]

As long as there is censorship of the internet, we can never be truly free!

The action's of these governments is nothing short of duct-taping the mouths of those who simply express how they feel and we never see that in real life. Then again, maybe they just hide it really well...

 

[ImprobableJoe]

As long as there is censorship of the internet, we can never be truly free!

The action's of these governments is nothing short of duct-taping the mouths of those who simply express how they feel and we never see that in real life. Then again, maybe they just hide it really well...

Really? Going after copyright violators is "censorship"?!?!

I think you need to go find a dictionary, because I don't think that word means what you think it means... :lol:

If you want to complain about Internet censorship, start here, instead of worrying about the "rights" of a bunch of criminals.

 

[MRaverz]

Really? Going after copyright violators is "censorship"?!?!

I think you need to go find a dictionary, because I don't think that word means what you think it means... :lol:

If you want to complain about Internet censorship, start here, instead of worrying about the "rights" of a bunch of criminals.

I was being sarcastic. :lol:
'we can never truly be free'? - C'mon, who says that?

To be honest, I'm all for censorship of anything particularly criminal (you know, like pedo-circles or terrorists or whatever).

Blocking TPB is something it's users wouldn't want, so it would be a pity it that happened to be blocked in my country - you know a pity for the users... But I can understand the legal side.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I was being sarcastic. :lol:
'we can never truly be free'? - C'mon, who says that?

To be honest, I'm all for censorship of anything particularly criminal (you know, like pedo-circles or terrorists or whatever).

Blocking TPB is something it's users wouldn't want, so it would be a pity it that happened to be blocked in my country - you know a pity for the users... But I can understand the legal side.

LOL, who says that? There was a whole thread about thePirate Party here, and people were invoking Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement while defending stealing other people's intellectual property. People totally say stupid things like that!! :evil:

 

[JacobEvans]

My biggest concern is that this might lead to more acts of censorship which aren't against the criminal, but towards those who are just "offensive" "obscene" or otherwise not socially accepted. This isn't really a slippery slope fallacy because their is a historical basis for my concern. Just look up things like the Alien and Sedition Acts and the Espionage Acts.

While I do see copyright infringement as criminal, I do think the laws need serious revision, and I view it as an inherently minor crime. Not to mention pirates actually tend to pay more for music and games than those who don't according to some recent articles I've read.

 

[MRaverz]

LOL, who says that? There was a whole thread about thePirate Party here, and people were invoking Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement while defending stealing other people's intellectual property. People totally say stupid things like that!! :evil:

Supporters of the Pirate Party just want free stuff to be honest, there's nothing more to it than that. I doubt they truly mean half the stuff they rant about, it just makes them look like they have a case.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Supporters of the Pirate Party just want free stuff to be honest, there's nothing more to it than that. I doubt they truly mean half the stuff they rant about, it just makes them look like they have a case.

Yeah, but it was 11 pages of all sorts of protestations and rationalizations, "pirates" trying to avoid admitting that they just wanted free stuff.

I'm looking forward to seeing someone explain how shutting down a criminal website is the end of Internet freedom. This should be a hoot!

 

[JacobEvans]

Read my post Joe.

It's hardly a defense of the obvious thievery of pirates, but it's a more rational argument for why it could be seen as concerning.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Read my post Joe.

It's hardly a defense of the obvious thievery of pirates, but it's a more rational argument for why it could be seen as concerning.

At least it isn't a defense of the indefensible...

The problem I see is that we're currently only talking about aggressive enforcement of laws that have existed for a pretty long time, as opposed to going after something new. After all, we're talking about actions that are the equivalent of stopping counterfeiters and bootleggers at the border.

 

[acerba]

If you want to sift through the various torrents to find and shut down those that are distributing content illegally, then by all means, but peer to peer file sharing is not, in and of itself, a criminal enterprise, and there are legitimate uses for such file sharing activities.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

If you want to sift through the various torrents to find and shut down those that are distributing content illegally, then by all means, but peer to peer file sharing is not, in and of itself, a criminal enterprise, and there are legitimate uses for such file sharing activities.

Yes, but that's got nothing to do with the whole "Pirate Bay" business, which is pretty damned illegitimate.

 

[acerba]

Yes, but that's got nothing to do with the whole "Pirate Bay" business, which is pretty damned illegitimate.

I'll agree that their name is rather poorly chosen; however, I think it's silly to pick on a torrent website because of its name regardless of how poorly chosen it may be. Aside from their name, what is the difference between Pirate Bay and all the other torrent websites? If there is an additional difference, I'm not aware of it.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I'll agree that their name is rather poorly chosen; however, I think it's silly to pick on a torrent website because of its name regardless of how poorly chosen it may be. Aside from their name, what is the difference between Pirate Bay and all the other torrent websites? If there is an additional difference, I'm not aware of it.

Their name is perfectly chosen, since they are thieves, and the people who have been using that site are also thieves. I guess they could have been more accurate, and named it "Intellectual Property Theft Bay" but it doesn't exactly roll off of the tongue, does it?

Are you presenting the argument "other criminal websites exist, and aren't being targeted, therefore Pirate Bay should get away with being criminals too"?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

There are legitimate uses for such file sharing activities.

Would you care to name them, and then show how any of those activities can be reasonably compared to downloading bootlegged movies, music, and software?

There may actually be legitimate uses for a torrent site... I guess. Maybe as a mirror host for a collection of websites that offer public domain and Creative Commons product. You know, stuff that's free AND legal.

 

[acerba]

Their name is perfectly chosen, since they are thieves, and the people who have been using that site are also thieves. I guess they could have been more accurate, and named it "Intellectual Property Theft Bay" but it doesn't exactly roll off of the tongue, does it?

Are you presenting the argument "other criminal websites exist, and aren't being targeted, therefore Pirate Bay should get away with being criminals too"?

What I'm saying is that the website, regardless of its name, is not criminal in and of itself. The website simply allows for easier file sharing between users. Nothing more and nothing less. It's the users who ultimately decide what files to share.

The name is irrelevant. The users who are sharing copyrighted materials are the people who are at fault, not the owners of the website.

Would you care to name them

If I make a series of videos, I can choose to put them on a torrent website to allow for people to access what I've created. I can also put up torrents for files created by other people (assuming, of course, that the content is not copyrighted).

I fail to see how the idea of legitimate peer to peer file sharing is such a bizarre concept. Not all files are copyrighted, ya know.

and then show how any of those activities can be reasonably compared to downloading bootlegged movies, music, and software?

Why? I'm not trying to say they are comparable.

Once again, I'm saying that if a person shares copyrighted material via a torrent website, his/she is the one at fault, not the website itself.

Additionally, if piratebay is shutdown people engaging in illegal file sharing aren't stopped. They'll simply go to another website. Nothing is accomplished by shutting down websites like piratebay, because the root of the problem (the users who are choosing to share files) has not been addressed. It's like shutting down a grocery store because someone is selling drugs in the back alley. The politicians might feel good about themselves, but they haven't actually done anything to stop the criminal behavior.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Once again, I'm saying that if a person shares copyrighted material via a torrent website, his/she is the one at fault, not the website itself.

And I disagree. How can you separate one from the other in this case, when the specific site in question is the most famous criminal file-sharing operation since Napster? That's like saying that you can't blame the owner of a crackhouse for all the crack smoking going on in his house.