Foe function...

[RigelKentaurusA]

Other forums without an ignore tool seem to do just fine from my experience.
And here, there's an interesting situation

A ignores B.
B makes a good post.
C quotes B to make it visible to A.

This circumvents he use of ignore. So, even as it is, the ignore feature seems to have limited power over preventing someone from reading something they don't wish to.

 

[lrkun]

Other forums without an ignore tool seem to do just fine from my experience.
And here, there's an interesting situation

A ignores B.
B makes a good post.
C quotes B to make it visible to A.

This circumvents he use of ignore. So, even as it is, the ignore feature seems to have limited power over preventing someone from reading something they don't wish to.

Whether he reads the post isn't important, but whether he answers them is. In the forum threads, were there instances where he addressed the replies re-posted by those he didn't ignore?

 

[Memeticemetic]

Other forums without an ignore tool seem to do just fine from my experience.
And here, there's an interesting situation

A ignores B.
B makes a good post.
C quotes B to make it visible to A.

This circumvents he use of ignore. So, even as it is, the ignore feature seems to have limited power over preventing someone from reading something they don't wish to.

Whether he reads the post isn't important, but whether he answers them is. In the forum threads, were there instances where he addressed the replies re-posted by those he didn't ignore?

Yes. Many of them.

 

[lrkun]

Yes. Many of them.

If this is so, then the foe function is only in the way.

 

[Memeticemetic]

Yes. Many of them.

If this is so, then the foe function is only in the way.

In the way of what? Are we missing out on great pearls of wisdom from such an illustrious figure? Or perhaps the sheer force of truth and eloquence from those who are ignored will sway him and bring him around to basic competence. Bollocks. The actions of Tzar are irrelevant and should not be considered in any decisions anyone makes about anything under any circumstances.

 

[lrkun]

In the way of what? Are we missing out on great pearls of wisdom from such an illustrious figure? Or perhaps the sheer force of truth and eloquence from those who are ignored will sway him and bring him around to basic competence. Bollocks. The actions of Tzar are irrelevant and should not be considered in any decisions anyone makes about anything under any circumstances.

The following:

1. You and the other mods have the last say.

2. I am voicing an opinion with as to the foe function.

Whether it is in the way of what.

It is in the way since tsar replies on the posts made by the ignored as reposted by those not ignored.

Whether we are missing wisdom from Tsar.

No since his posts are wrong as demonstrated.

Whether the information by those whom he ignore matter.

Yes since you said he counter-argues those posts, but if he doesn't, then it doesn't matter.

Whether the actions of Tsar matter.

Yes since this thread concerns his acts.

Lock: Whether foe function should be disabled.

Key: It depends on the mods since they decide.

Personal opinion: It should remain since it allows the user to avoid unnecessary interaction with others.

 

[australopithecus]

The ignore function is handy to have around. It helps stem flamming by putting a little distance between people likely to kick off. However, Mr Tsar abuses it because he's dishonest and clearly thinks ignoring a refutation of his arguments means those refutations didn't happen. Maybe introducing a limit to the amount of people someone can ignore, perhaps? Like 5?

 

[Memeticemetic]

The ignore function is handy to have around. It helps stem flamming by putting a little distance between people likely to kick off. However, Mr Tsar abuses it because he's dishonest and clearly thinks ignoring a refutation of his arguments means those refutations didn't happen. Maybe introducing a limit to the amount of people someone can ignore, perhaps? Like 5?

Or... best of all, do nothing whatsoever, and when Tzar leaves no one will give a fetid pair of dingo's kidneys about the ignore function at all anymore.

 

[scalyblue]

I think the only modification needed is the public display of how many people a particular user has added to their foe list, that way people who abuse it can't hide the ability, but it still retains the privacy if, for example, you hate a particular person's sig or avatar.

 

[lrkun]

The ignore function is handy to have around. It helps stem flamming by putting a little distance between people likely to kick off. However, Mr Tsar abuses it because he's dishonest and clearly thinks ignoring a refutation of his arguments means those refutations didn't happen. Maybe introducing a limit to the amount of people someone can ignore, perhaps? Like 5?

If you make the foe function subject to a mod's approval, and upon the mod's review of the case, then there will be no excuse whether the ignore is valid or not.

 

[Deleted member 619]

OK, just to address the charge of uncharacteristic brevity, here goes.

I've always been against having an ignore function. Admittedly, although I've been a member here pretty much since the beginning, I've never really spent much time here, so its inclusion hasn't really had much impact.

However, if the aim of the forum is to promote rational discourse, then even having an ignore function s counter to that. I'm aware of, and to some degree agree with, all of the arguments in its favour, but I think they're outweighed by mission statement of the forum.

In reality, inclusion of the function is, to my mind, promoting puerilism. In reality, the recent debacle with Czar was only the trigger for this topic, as until now I wasn't even aware that this feature was enabled here. It surprised me greatly.

Basically, even the most ignorant knobhead can occasionally say something incisive and interesting, and in the event that you really don't want to see or respond to somebody's posts, you have the option, as Darkchilde intimated, of simply scrolling past them. This serves multiple purposes, in that it encourages one to think about one's own reactions to people and the things they say, which is one of the most important tools in engendering rationality, and it also presses one into taking responsibility for one's actions and utterances.

I do understand why the moderating team are in favour of it, not least because it's a very easy way of dealing with conflict but, in my opinion, it isn't really a way of dealing with conflict, it's a way of brushing it under the carpet. Discourse is often about conflict, and it is by confronting it that we learn the most about ourselves and each other. This is the route to truly rational discourse.

I've been a member on quite a lot of fora, and I've yet to come across a good argument against this.

In short, the ignore function is irrational, and therefore counter to the aims of the forum. It basically constitutes sticking one's fingers in one's ears, and is the intellectual equivalent of diving in the box.

ETA: I should also point out that it makes for very disjointed threads.

Incidentally, I do think that Anachronous Rex's suggestion is a reasonable compromise, if it's to be kept.

 

[scalyblue]

Friend / Foe is part of the phpbb3 code that this forum is based from, its inclusion was default, its removal would be a modification.

 

[borrofburi]

Basically, even the most ignorant knobhead can occasionally say something incisive and interesting, and in the event that you really don't want to see or respond to somebody's posts, you have the option, as Darkchilde intimated, of simply scrolling past them. This serves multiple purposes, in that it encourages one to think about one's own reactions to people and the things they say, which is one of the most important tools in engendering rationality, and it also presses one into taking responsibility for one's actions and utterances.

I do understand why the moderating team are in favour of it, not least because it's a very easy way of dealing with conflict but, in my opinion, it isn't really a way of dealing with conflict, it's a way of brushing it under the carpet. Discourse is often about conflict, and it is by confronting it that we learn the most about ourselves and each other. This is the route to truly rational discourse.

You can't force rational discourse.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

I added hackenslash to my otherwise empty Foe list just for kicks, and true enough while his(her?) post got fully hidden, a part of his post quoted by burrofburi was shown in burrofburi's post. I also noticed that when replying to a post, the Topic Review section below the reply editor does not hide posts from your Foe.

One way to counter disadvantages of Foe function would be to show just part (10% or first few lines) of a (longer) post posted by your Foe, instead of hiding it completely. The rest of the post could be hidden in a similar fashion to the ShowMore tag, and can be made visible in a click (similar to the new YouTube description hiding). At least for some people, reading the first part of the post may poke their curiosity to read the entire thing. And eventually remove the person from Foe list.

Lol my friends list is also empty. I don't use both these functions because they are so buried. My suggestion is, there should be an "Add friend" button next to the PM button at the bottom of each post so that I can quickly add the person posting it to my Friends list. Whether there should be an "Add foe" button next to the "Report this post" button, that I will leave up to the board programmer (I assume that's CosmicSpork?).

 

[Deleted member 619]

You can't force rational discourse.

Of course not, but you can encourage and facilitate it.

 

[lrkun]

I added hackenslash to my otherwise empty Foe list just for kicks, and true enough while his(her?) post got fully hidden, a part of his post quoted by burrofburi was shown in burrofburi's post. I also noticed that when replying to a post, the Topic Review section below the reply editor does not hide posts from your Foe.

One way to counter disadvantages of Foe function would be to show just part (10% or first few lines) of a (longer) post posted by your Foe, instead of hiding it completely. The rest of the post could be hidden in a similar fashion to the ShowMore tag, and can be made visible in a click (similar to the new YouTube description hiding). At least for some people, reading the first part of the post may poke their curiosity to read the entire thing. And eventually remove the person from Foe list.

Lol my friends list is also empty. I don't use both these functions because they are so buried. My suggestion is, there should be an "Add friend" button next to the PM button at the bottom of each post so that I can quickly add the person posting it to my Friends list. Whether there should be an "Add foe" button next to the "Report this post" button, that I will leave up to the board programmer (I assume that's CosmicSpork?).

I support your add friend next to the pm button suggestion.

 

[Andiferous]

Tbh, I've wondered for ages what the point of the friend function is. I'm not sure anyone knows... :lol:

 

[scalyblue]

Tbh, I've wondered for ages what the point of the friend function is. I'm not sure anyone knows... :lol:

Uh, the people who write the board software don't know ^.^

http://www.phpbb.com/support/documentation/3.0/userguide/user_control_panel.php#ucp_friends_foes

5.3.4. Friends and Foes
TODO: (Not sure if this deserves its own section yet. For 3.0 this does not have much of an influence on the overall forum experience, this might change with 3.2, so leaving it here for now.) Write a detailed explanation about what Friends and Foes are and how they affect the forum like hiding posts of foes, adding users to the friends list for fast access / online checks, and so forth.

 

[Andiferous]

That put me into uncontrollable fits of giggles, thanks there. "It does this and so forth." Never a clearer instruction manual for software options, perhaps it's the creative option. Yeah yeah, you just tell us how to do it.

Edit: Still not smart enough to figure out the 'and so on' magic bits but, perhaps that undefined function is a sense of moral superiority and forum bonding.

Seriously though. If Tsar ignoring folks annoys people and causes such discord between software function and group morale, wtf not ignore Tzar? He comes out looking prophetic and smart, and everyone else looks really ironic.

Don't post to him. Easy peasy. Scroll through, take your own advice. Come on.

No one forces you to be ignored.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

5.3.4. Friends and Foes
TODO: (Not sure if this deserves its own section yet. For 3.0 this does not have much of an influence on the overall forum experience, this might change with 3.2, so leaving it here for now.) Write a detailed explanation about what Friends and Foes are and how they affect the forum like hiding posts of foes, adding users to the friends list for fast access / online checks, and so forth.

What the! And here I am thinking PHPBB is like the best forum software. Lack of documentation is a no-no in an effective software solution (I study computer science).

But anyway they should have seriously considered making the friends feature a more prominent feature. Right from the start when they introduced it.

My graphical fantasies