Ex-satanist testament about magic and baby-sacrifices

[Mithcoriel]

Here's a video a christian sent me:



Well that's pretty much yelling "bullshit" all over. But does anyone have a link to a good debunking, something gullible Christians can maybe be directed to, instead of just "That's wrong, end of story"?

Is there someone here who knows a bit about satanism? I'm also wondering...
Do Satanists have such a thing as "5th bride of satan"?
Do they have elements, like in her case the "element of fire"?
They're atheists, right? Is there any branch who worships an actual satan?
Have there ever been any satanists who got killed or harassed for leaving satanism, the way they do for other cults?
I'm not going to ask if they really have telekinesis, can tell demons to possess people, or sacrifice babies.

 

[Laurens]

Eyewitness testimony doesn't count for Jack. She could easily be lying or insane...

Oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Ritual_Abuse

Satanic ritual abuse (SRA, sometimes known as ritual abuse, ritualistic abuse, organised abuse, sadistic ritual abuse and other variants) refers to a moral panic that originated in the United States in the 1980s, spreading throughout the country and eventually to many parts of the world, before subsiding in the late 1990s. Allegations of SRA involved reports of physical and sexual abuse of individuals in the context of occult or Satanic rituals. At its most extreme definition, SRA involved a worldwide conspiracy involving the wealthy and powerful of the world elite in which children were abducted or bred for sacrifices, pornography and prostitution.

This video looks pretty 90's (which was when the craze was at it's height), I think it might just be some of the hype surrounding the supposed 'SRA', it's clearly a religious TV show too, I notice the word GOD at the top of the screen - which is an indicator of possible bias.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

To much christian stereotype of satanists.
We sacrificed babies, we had rape orgies and magic powers. And we make witchcraft and we tryed to put spells on Benny Hinn... this guy:

But he had an aura arround him and we couldn't casts the spells because he was surrounded by angels, and then he figured us out and he said "you witches are going to hell if you don't repent to jesus". And there are satanists in the police and the congress and they secretly control ze world. :facepalm:
Yeah, it is totaly legit.

 

[Demojen]

Here's a video a christian sent me:

*Video Removed from Reply*

Well that's pretty much yelling "bullshit" all over. But does anyone have a link to a good debunking, something gullible Christians can maybe be directed to, instead of just "That's wrong, end of story"?

Is there someone here who knows a bit about satanism? I'm also wondering...
Do Satanists have such a thing as "5th bride of satan"?
Do they have elements, like in her case the "element of fire"?
They're atheists, right? Is there any branch who worships an actual satan?
Have there ever been any satanists who got killed or harassed for leaving satanism, the way they do for other cults?
I'm not going to ask if they really have telekinesis, can tell demons to possess people, or sacrifice babies.

To your questions:
Do Satanists have such a thing as "5th bride of satan"?

Elaborate. The context of this question is vague and bares explaination. At no point in this video was that even mentioned.

Do they have elements, like in her case the "element of fire"?

In LaVey's Satanic Bible, the four "Crown Princes of Hell" are Satan, Lucifer, Belial, and Leviathan. LaVey associated them with the four directions and the four elements as follows:</B>

Prince	Direction	Element
Satan	South	Fire
Lucifer	East	Air
Belial	North	Earth
Leviathan	West	Water

They're atheists, right? Is there any branch who worships an actual satan?

<B>Atheists don't believe in the existence of God(A negative position). Satanists believe God exists by virtue of believing Satan exists(A positive position). Satan/Lucifer/Belial/Leviathan are biblical names.

Have there ever been any satanists who got killed or harassed for leaving satanism, the way they do for other cults?

Probably. Religious cults all hold a measure of insanity.

Conclusion: This video is not depicting someone who has been raped by a religion and witnessed the death of babies and adults annually. The human psyche wouldn't be able to handle that sort of torture and retain any appreciation for the value of life. She's shown to be crying at several points in this video to imply she holds remorse. If she were party to these events in reality, she would be in prison on charges of accessory to murder. This interview is staged, and coincidentally being aired by a Christian organization famous for their focus on LaVey and satanism.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

NEWSFLASH

I always find it quite humorous that some theists automatically assume that because atheists (lack a belief in god or gods) that we automatically somehow worship Satan. Sometimes I think that the worshiping mind assumes everybody needs to worship something. Those are just my thoughts on the subject.

Metaphor ALERT:
This is probably why I enjoy the song by the Rolling Stones that has to somewhat do with this subject.

Sometimes (when I'm feeling frisky) I allow theists to keep that belief and I will add some choice sarcastic remarks to help them keep that belief. It probably has to do with the fact that it's almost impossible to get some theists to see the issue with their belief in god is unrealistic and thus 'believing' in Satan is also unrealistic.

Sometimes I will also try to explain to some theists that because I lack a belief in god or gods that I don't have the need for Satan. As Satan is some supernatural rendition of some fallen Angel.


Just for the record:

I don't really think baby sacrifice is a cool or just practice. Although if I open the pages of the bible I bet I could find a verse or two that shows that baby sacrifice is cool with their God.

Atheists with a sense of humor can sometimes be a strange breed........ :lol:

 

[borrofburi]

There are a lot of atheist satanists.... There are a lot of christian satanists... Well I don't know about "a lot", but I know both "sects" exist.

 

[Demojen]

Curious. A Christian atheist and a satanic atheist...How does that pan out?

The foundation of Christianity is contingent on a relationship with God. The existence of Satan is contingent on a relationship with God.

 

[borrofburi]

Curious. A Christian atheist and a satanic atheist...How does that pan out?

The foundation of Christianity is contingent on a relationship with God. The existence of Satan is contingent on a relationship with God.

They think the mythological idea of satan as a rebellious figure is worth venerating.

 

[RigelKentaurusA]

Curious. A Christian atheist and a satanic atheist...How does that pan out?

As I understand it, (LeVayen) satanism is less a worship (or even acknowledgement of the existence of) Satan, but more of a use of "satan" to represent a set of ideas, mostly those that are in our carnal instinct, and some sensible ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

The Nine Satanic Statements

Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence
Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams
Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires
Satan represents man as just another animal (sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours), who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all.
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years[17]

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another's home, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm young children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Some of it is decent stuff. Others, I'm not so sure (what's this mating signal?)

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

what's this mating signal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQ6l4YZfpw

 

[Mithcoriel]

To your questions:
Do Satanists have such a thing as "5th bride of satan"?

Elaborate. The context of this question is vague and bares explaination. At no point in this video was that even mentioned.

The very first thing she says sounds to me like "I was the 5th Bride of Satan".

Crown princes of Hell? That's interesting. And what do Satanists make those out to be? Metaphors? Not real deities, I presume?

I'd always heard that Satanists worship a thing called Satan which basically represents individuality or something like that, but not a deity. RigelKentaurusA described it.

But looks like the other side exists too, according to Demojen. So there really are Satanists who do worship Satan as a person, and think he's the enemy of God. (How does that make sense, though? You'd have to believe in the Christian pantheon for that, in which God is much more powerful than satan, so why worship the latter?)

I guess my naive faith in human honesty made me reject the idea that the story was 100% fabricated and I thought there could be misunderstandings and exaggerations or something. Surely a "christian" host wouldn't just make a living from fake interview after fake interview?

 

[Demojen]

I guess my naive faith in human honesty made me reject the idea that the story was 100% fabricated and I thought there could be misunderstandings and exaggerations or something. Surely a "christian" host wouldn't just make a living from fake interview after fake interview?

Click here for response

 

[Mithcoriel]

Ah come on, faith healing isn't the same thing as news-like shows. I'll grant you on the spot that that Christian show is probably biased as heck and willing to stretch the truth a lot, but to just sit down and write fictitious stories and have actors come in and perform them?
I was thinking the show I mentioned could be maybe like Fox News, you know, everything but fair and balanced. But this woman still thinks she's on the side of good, so she must have at least a seed of truth in her shows.

Anyway, I don't have much doubt the actual story is fake, I'm just still looking for a better debunking than "It's all made up",cause no Christian will accept that answer. It's sounds like an ad hoc claim, a bare assertion without reason.

 

[Demojen]

Ah come on, faith healing isn't the same thing as news-like shows. I'll grant you on the spot that that Christian show is probably biased as heck and willing to stretch the truth a lot, but to just sit down and write fictitious stories and have actors come in and perform them?
I was thinking the show I mentioned could be maybe like Fox News, you know, everything but fair and balanced. But this woman still thinks she's on the side of good, so she must have at least a seed of truth in her shows.

Anyway, I don't have much doubt the actual story is fake, I'm just still looking for a better debunking than "It's all made up",cause no Christian will accept that answer. It's sounds like an ad hoc claim, a bare assertion without reason.

Are you reading only the parts of replies that don't flat out demonstrate how this story is complete bullshit?

Is that how you plan on debating? Ignore the sum of evidence in favor of focusing on the weaker evidence and conjecture?

Allow me to enlighten you to a few points that were added to this conversation that, cumulatively destroy the assertion this story holds any value in truth or conjecture. To in fact demonstrate she is not only lying, but that she knows she's lying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

She refers to satanic rituals of rape.

Satanic Rules of the Earth
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

In law, you can not rape the willing. In the Satanic ritual she claims to have been party to, she was not raped because rape is not permitted.

She says they murdered children.

9. Do not harm young children.

She has confessed to what would make her an accessory to potentially hundreds or even thousands of missing peoples cases. This is not unusual for someone who wants to appear particularly special as a sociopath to do, but she is not behind bars and the organization is not dismantled, so it is more likely then not that she is lying. To suggest that there are satanists in every order of government protecting their agenda is the ad hoc claim. Apply Occams Razor to the situation and it just does not make sense. If you've studied sociopathy at all, the bullshit she is dishing out is typical.

Educate yourself on the subject of sociopaths and you may find many such persons practicing Christianity.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1016018/how_to_identify_a_sociopath_telling.html

 

[borrofburi]

But looks like the other side exists too, according to Demojen. So there really are Satanists who do worship Satan as a person, and think he's the enemy of God. (How does that make sense, though? You'd have to believe in the Christian pantheon for that, in which God is much more powerful than satan, so why worship the latter?)

Well, to quote Al Pacino playing Satan in The Devil's Advocate, responding to Reeves' statement "yeah, but god wins in the end", "Consider the source!" (I'd try to find it on youtube but the last time I did that I was woefully unable). The point being, satanists who worship Satan tend to disregard much of the bible as propaganda (i.e., god's not "clearly" more powerful, except in the work he wrote, about himself (seriously, god is the equivalent of a lonely 4channer writing about how awesome he really is)).

I met a satanist once who wasn't all child sacrifice, in fact she was really quite a nice person; it turns out she read the old testament and concluded that god was a bloodthirsty vile murdering rapist psychopathic ethnic-cleansing warmonger, and that Satan opposing that means he must be a pretty good guy (I guess she never got the memo that sometimes worst enemies are both assholes).

Are you reading only the parts of replies that don't flat out demonstrate how this story is complete bullshit?

Nah, he's validly pointing out that convincing someone that believes in complete bullshit that the bullshit really is bullshit is quite difficult.

 

[Daealis]

I recon there's every sort of nutcases around the world, but at least the atheistic satanic movement, such as LaVeyan, should be far from that sort of behaviour. I'm not particularly familiar with the deistic nominations, but I'm quite certain even those would still differ from plain devil worship in great many ways. That's the differentiation I use and have seen other use: Satanists being the philosophical standpoint that is prevalent in the text of LaVey for example, and devil worshippers being the retards sacrificing small animals and drinking blood and tipping tombstones in efforts of bringing forth the antichrist or some other nonsense. The wording between satanist and devil worshipper is very similar in finnish and more often than not they are used interchangeably when talking about some assholes who have gutted a cat in the woods in some "altar". It pisses me off to no end as I agree with quite a few of LaVeys ideas and consider myself a satanist, at least to some degree.

 

[Andiferous]

I probably need an education on satanic procedures, but I tend to agree with Demojen's opinion in that a person must first believe in the Christian GOD to thereby accept the existence of SATAN.

Curious. A Christian atheist and a satanic atheist...How does that pan out?

The foundation of Christianity is contingent on a relationship with God. The existence of Satan is contingent on a relationship with God.

To choose between the two and go for the bad boy seems wickedly contrary. While I may be optimistic, given my limited understanding of the tenets of said belief, I find it hard to believe that humans would lean toward the "evil" alternative stereotype for any other reason than rebellion against god. And I apologise, but rebellion may be akin to the stages of grief. Borri said as much earlier, too.

In law, you can not rape the willing. In the Satanic ritual she claims to have been party to, she was not raped because rape is not permitted.

++ Demojen

This point really bothers me to no end.

Either way, I'd be curious and want more information if possible.

 

[Mithcoriel]

Are you reading only the parts of replies that don't flat out demonstrate how this story is complete bullshit?

Is that how you plan on debating?"

You might want to read more closely. I'm not the christian nutcase who actually claims this story is real. I'm the rational freethinker who's looking for a way to debunk it that will satisfy the christian nutcase who sent it to me. I'm playing devil's advocate in this thread a bit cause, as I said, I want to collect specific claims against it, not just something that sounds like bare assertions, no matter how silly we think it is.

It's true, the wikipedia article and the points you pointed out aren't bad.

She has confessed to what would make her an accessory to potentially hundreds or even thousands of missing peoples cases. This is not unusual for someone who wants to appear particularly special as a sociopath to do, but she is not behind bars and the organization is not dismantled, so it is more likely then not that she is lying. To suggest that there are satanists in every order of government protecting their agenda is the ad hoc claim. Apply Occams Razor to the situation and it just does not make sense.

Yeah, maybe I should have mentioned that I already made those points to the person who sent it, that the organization would be dismantled if this story were true, and that it's silly to believe in a conspiracy of tons of satanists in the government (haven't gotten a reply yet).

 

[Laurens]

As I mentioned earlier, the Satanic ritual abuse outrage crazed America for a while, and it is viewed as a mostly baseless moral panic stirred up by religious groups and other professionals such as police officers and therapists. Many disproven and exaggerated stories were widely spread as facts by these groups.

Upon examination there has been no substantial evidence found indicating that Satanic ritual abuse had ever taken place in the US or the UK during the craze. See the wiki article I posted, under the skepticism section.

The video is obviously created by a Church organization in the height of the moral panic about Satanic ritual abuse, the organization would, due to their bias, probably interview someone making claims about satanic ritual abuse without examining their case to see whether it is true or not.

None of my research into actual Satanism (albeit not that extensive) has turned up any evidence that Satanists practice baby killing rituals or anything like that. It's clearly bullshit.

 

[Dora]

also a good place to find more information :

http://www.skepdic.com/satan.html

has quite some links to the information (and more) mentioned in other's replies.

Laurens already mentioned the ritual abuse cases in the US and you might follow those links in there also

I also remember an exposé on randi.org about this that had a shitload of extra information about "satanism" and the necessary debunking but for the love of the bolognaise I can't find it atm