Drugs.

[Lallapalalable]

Okay, so shocker here: I recreationally partake in certain chemical concoctions. Im not going to all-out condone or support that behavior, but I do rule in favor. Yes, it does have various negative moral, physical and legal side effects (some of which I have felt). Yes, it can be fucking awesome (not always). I dont want to go into unneccesary detail, nor for anyone else to (locations, dates, names, etc), but what is your take on you/others using recreational drugs? For it? Against it? "I dont care, let the dirty hippies do what they want."? Personal experiences/stories? Ill contribute my own after gauging the mood of the replies.

 

[lrkun]

Okay, so shocker here: I recreationally partake in certain chemical concoctions. Im not going to all-out condone or support that behavior, but I do rule in favor. Yes, it does have various negative moral, physical and legal side effects (some of which I have felt). Yes, it can be fucking awesome (not always). I dont want to go into unneccesary detail, nor for anyone else to (locations, dates, names, etc), but what is your take on you/others using recreational drugs? For it? Against it? "I dont care, let the dirty hippies do what they want."? Personal experiences/stories? Ill contribute my own after gauging the mood of the replies.

I'm not for the use of recreational drugs, because I'm a control freak, it means I want to have control over myself when I'm doing things, besides, I can feel high when I listen to music, have sex, and exercise. Likewise, I can consciously feel high when I want to, I just recall the feeling and boom. It's all in the mind, besides, I don't wish to add an additional expense when I'm already wasting a lot of money for cigs.

In your case, I won't judge you, because as long as you know what you're doing and consciously did it with deliberation, knowing the consequences, you're entitled to face those consequences on your own. Who knows, drugs might be legalized in the future.

Commentary

I'm easily addicted to things as when I start a specific habit, I continously do it or seek it. Accordingly, I avoid addicting habits. Hehe.

 

[Lallapalalable]

guess you already knew? This is hard, going between topics.

Likewise, I can consciously feel high when I want to, I just recall the feeling and boom. It's all in the mind...

If thats true, I envy you :evil: But, you do have good reason, with your addictive and controlling personality. I can assure you, though, that natural mental highs arent even comparable. But, you cant miss what you never had, right?

...besides, I don't wish to add an additional expense when I'm already wasting a lot of money for cigs

...yeah :?

 

[lrkun]

guess you already knew? This is hard, going between topics.

Likewise, I can consciously feel high when I want to, I just recall the feeling and boom. It's all in the mind...

If thats true, I envy you :evil: But, you do have good reason, with your addictive and controlling personality. I can assure you, though, that natural mental highs arent even comparable. But, you cant miss what you never had, right?

...besides, I don't wish to add an additional expense when I'm already wasting a lot of money for cigs

...yeah :?

True, I can't miss what I don't know, which to me is just right. Besides, getting high is subjective, it's something which you think can be measured by a metric, but actually you can control how high you get when you think about it. It's expectation and a play of emotion as well as facial gestures.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Speaking as someone who has to clean up after casual drug use, I'll spare you all a long, vitriolic, hate-filled rant and simply state that I'm against it.

 

[Lallapalalable]

it's something which you think can be measured by a metric, but actually you can control how high you get when you think about it. It's expectation and a play of emotion as well as facial gestures.

When did I say I thought it could be measured? But yes, you can experience good and bad highs on the exact same dose of the exact same stuff, it all depends on how you feel when you do it and what you want to experience. However, I feel that the exception would be in cases of experimenting, where you dont know what, exactly, will happen.

I dont understand what you mean by facial guestures, though. Does your own face affect the high, or is it a psychological influence from seeing the happy/worried looks on all your friends faces?

Speaking as someone who has to clean up after casual drug use, I'll spare you all a long, vitriolic, hate-filled rant and simply state that I'm against it.

Thank you for that (not sarcastic).

 

[Independent Vision]

I, personally, haven't really partaken in any recreational drug use beyond the legal poisons, alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

In moderation I do not, personally, have a problem with some of the currently illegal substances people use. As far as I can tell marijuana isn't more damaging or addictive than alcohol and/or cigarettes, and I see no reason for it's illegal status.

All in all I can understand the appeal, I can also understand the reservations people have about recreational drug use.
I would say that a lot of the problems comes from the substances being illegal. If they were to be legal but controlled it might not be as big of an issue (crime, etc)

I have known people on varying levels of drug use, and I can't say that they were any different, in reality, than someone who would drink alcohol. I've especially found marijuana users less prone to acts of violence and aggression than alcohol users, but that's in my limited experience.

*shrugs*
All in all, moderate recreational drug use that is not an addiction, and that is not of the "heavier" kind, I have no problems with.
Personally, I'll stick with a couple of beers every now and then and my buckets of coffee. (and the occasional cigarette)

 

[MRaverz]

Personally I see any obsession with a want to get intoxicated pretty pathetic. As such I don't really see the appeal of drugs, including tobacco and alcohol. For me, life is about the good bits and the bad bits, you live with whatever comes your way.

Saying that however, I wouldn't say that I judge others - they simply have a different style of living and they're welcome to it. So long as it doesn't affect those around them negatively. Therefore, to reword my opening sentence - by pathetic, I mean that I really don't get it.

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

I do drink but only because I like beer/wine etc. and not specifically to get hammered. Beyond that I've just never seen the appeal of drugs. If people want to take them though it's their lookout. Of course if as a result of your drug use you harm others, then I think you should expect to feel the full force of the law.

I'm also wholly in favour of legalising drugs and imposing taxes on them, which would in my view save the lives of thousands a year in countries that grow drugs and/or lie on drug running routes. The current situation in Mexico for example is horrible, with drugs cartels fighting both each other and the Government and many innocent people getting caught in the crossfire. This is before you even get to the fact that prohibition has utterly failed to stop people from taking drugs and doesn't show any signs of working any time soon.

EDIT: corrected typo.

 

[Doc.]

Well I do occasionally have alcohol (in moderation)-people relax, become more sociable. a bit of marijuana on summer holidays and that's about it. as for the rest, I'm against it simply because you become dependent on harmful illegal (illegal=trouble) substance, an abasement of which limits and degrades you as a person- I don't think that feeling good (or even awesome) for some time is worth it.

 

[DepricatedZero]

I'm curious what the moral side affects of drugs are...

 

[lrkun]

it's something which you think can be measured by a metric, but actually you can control how high you get when you think about it. It's expectation and a play of emotion as well as facial gestures.

When did I say I thought it could be measured? But yes, you can experience good and bad highs on the exact same dose of the exact same stuff, it all depends on how you feel when you do it and what you want to experience. However, I feel that the exception would be in cases of experimenting, where you dont know what, exactly, will happen.

I dont understand what you mean by facial guestures, though. Does your own face affect the high, or is it a psychological influence from seeing the happy/worried looks on all your friends faces?

Speaking as someone who has to clean up after casual drug use, I'll spare you all a long, vitriolic, hate-filled rant and simply state that I'm against it.

Thank you for that (not sarcastic).

There is a presumption that an emotion is initially caused by facial expression. Test this, for example, you wish to feel happiness, smile, you'll find in doing so, it's easier to think of happy thoughts, rather than when you frown.

 

[KnowingLaughter]

I have recreationally smoked cannabis for years, but gave up drinking almost immediately after starting.

For me it is down to personal choice, as in - I am choosing to alter my mind for purposes of enjoyment, relaxation or whatever. A concious choice, factoring in things like "do I need to do something later", "am I in an appropriate setting to be inebriated" etc.

Something I am strongly against is the addiction side of things, where people are doing it to feel "normal", or at wholly inappropriate times or places. That for me applies to prescription drugs, recreational, hard, legal - just generally anything. Addiction and compulsion are not good. Mental health support is usually the better route to travel than drowning your sorrows.

That is why I gave up drinking, I found it too addictive and hated what it did to my brain. It made me act like the people I have always avoided. On the flip side I visit Amsterdam two or three times a year, and socially smoke in this country and have never felt "addicted" or that it negatively effects my life.

I can appreciate that for people who have never experienced that mind state it is easy to look at "stoners" as they are portrayed in film and laugh. The assumption is always that they are simple minded which is not the case. Ok so I am an artist myself (d'oh!) but I have two close friends, one teacher and one doctor who also both smoke. Neither of them drink funnily enough.

In my experience the people drawn to alcohol are seeking social lubricant, lower inhibitions and confidence. The people drawn to cannabis seem to be seeking relaxation, creative thoughts and expression. It's all about the desired head space. Some like loud people, some don't, it's the same kind of thing.

Personally I find drunk people to be among the most objectionable I have encountered, but I am sure they would see me as stuffy and over-sensitive. Win some, lose some!

Things like heroin or crack are a little different though, I find them personally abhorrent, however I would still support full legalisation and control of them. The drugs might stay the same but the people on them suffer more through prohibition, not being able to find help, not knowing what is in their "hit" and the money that goes to rebuilding these peoples lives could have at least been part subsidised by taxing them in the first place (ie cigarettes and alcohol).

I work on community care projects and have helped ex-offenders and drug addicts find other ways of expressing themselves so I feel I have seen my fair share of this kind of thing. Incidentally I have helped more recovered alcoholics than any other addiction group.

To me it is a simple fact that not everyone will always be happy with their mind state and some will seek to alter it, this has gone back through history, and will continue in to the future. The substances seem less relevant than the thoughts or feelings that leads someone to want to experience a "high" in the first place. The substance is just a "tool" for them to use to reach their goal. The goal should be the focus of attention.

 

[Laurens]

I smoke marijuana. I know from experience that it has negative effects when used excessively. So now I only smoke occasionally, and, though I do use it recreationally, sometimes I also use it to help me think about things in depth, or write music.

My view, in excess its a bad thing, but if you know what you're doing and you use it with respect you can gain a lot from it.

I've also had some interesting experience on psychedelic mushrooms, which I'll share later, after I've had dinner

Laurens

 

[Yfelsung]

I've used just about every drug under the sun at some point. I walked into an IQ test several years ago high as balls and nailed a 135. I graduated high school, have no criminal record, have a decent enough job and have little problem maintaining friendships and relationships even though I am a drug user.

Bottom line, every drug should be legal because it's not the drugs that are a problem, it's the users. I should not be told I cannot consume cocaine because some people don't have the willpower to use drugs responsibly.

If we applied the logic that we apply to drugs to everything else, no one would be allowed to do anything.

 

[Laurens]

I have taken magic mushrooms several times, I thought I would share my experiences and thoughts about them.

The last time I took mushrooms, I had quite a medium dose. We started off watching the Wizard of Oz, and the mushrooms took hold round about when the film goes from black and white to colour. The film was just absurd, the colours were cartoon like and over bright and my friend and I were in the clutches of the ridiculous silliness that you get when under the influence of mushrooms. When the characters began to sing 'lions and tigers and bears' my friend and I started singing 'lions and tigers and Ben' (the name of a mutual friend) and laughing hysterically. We decided to stop watching the film and play some guitar instead.

I felt strangely like the strings were a part of my brain when I was strumming them (there's no logical way of putting it really) and I began to sing a bizarre song that consisted of me playing two chords and singing 'ice cream, nice dream' over and over again. After that we decided that the best possible idea in the universe was to listen to the Beatles. The rest of the trip passed rather uneventfully apart from two things.

Looking into the mirror and hallucinating that I morphed into an old man - that stuck with me for a while. Secondly, gazing into a lava lamp and feeling an intensely warm loving feeling upon hearing the lyrics "...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make".

I also had a rather bad trip on Fly-Agaric mushrooms once. These are a lot different to psilosybin (sp?) containing mushrooms, first difference is they take a long time to kick in fully - which you have to be wary of. At first we started feeling rather drunk (a slightly psychedellic drunk), this lasted about an hour or so. Both of us thought that the trip was over and we were about to go home, which could have been a mistake, because as my friend was about to go into his house we suddenly blasted into outer space. I got a really intense rushing sensation and my vision seemed to get quite skewed (I wasn't hallucinating as in seeing things that weren't there, rather my sense of perspective went a bit funny). I was also hearing weird noises, that can be described as being similar to the noise it makes on facebook when you get a new message.

All I can say is that we were both wrecked out of our minds. We were standing in different phone boxes and trying to talk to each other through the phones. We smashed over a load of trolleys outside a supermarket and subsequently ran quite some distance to the local park. Shortly after this we decided to walk up an old railway track (not in use any more thankfully). This is where I got in a real twist. I couldn't tell where I was at all. I kept thinking I was further ahead that we actually were, I was seeing places that were on different parts of the track. I felt like I was sinking into the ground. I couldn't talk any sense, and the only thing I felt was intense anxiety and fear. I felt like I had lost my mind, I was extremely confused.

Eventually I came round and started to feel sober again. I'll never forget the dread that I felt.

I don't believe there is anything spiritual to mushrooms, but I can see why people think that there is, because you can get powerful and strange feelings that could easily be interpreted into a religious experience. All in all I think they are worth trying, just make sure you know what you're doing, and be careful who you're with and where you are.

Laurens

 

[Lurking_Logic]

I am against the legalisation of drugs at the moment

And I do say at the moment

Now I have never done drugs nor do i have any intention of ever doing so
but in recent years the university I have attended has has controversy with a pro-marujuana group (Who had violent clashes with police leading to several arrests) and serious problems with public drunkenness culminating into arson of property, obstruction of fire fighters sent to stop said blaze and eventually a mini riot which was stopped by the police in full riot gear

And when I think that these people are going to have more access to the very things causing these problems I shudder at the possible outcomes
perhaps my experience is not normal or representative of these groups as a whole

But until we reform the way people use the drugs (and alcohol) into something more mature I don't think they should be legal or any more legal then they are

 

[Lallapalalable]

I see most people arent against it themselves, but see no "problem" with others doing it. To be honest, thats more than I expected. I do agree with most of the consensus, that, so long as they are used responsibly, there is no harm in the activity. Some can be used in excess for a very long time and then just dropped, others you use once and you're done for. All depends on what it is and who you are.

As for myself, I mostly I smoke pot, more or less two to three times a week. I dont usually get retarded, just enough to feel buzzed (similar to a few beers). However, every now and again I will get to that point where I cant remember past a minute or so. Twice (or more, maybe), I smoked hash, both times without realizing it until it was too late, but the effects are similar to weed, but stronger, so it was just like smoking more. I tried acid a few times, about two years ago, and while I have to say I had fun, I felt like crap for two or three days after, which is the main reason I havent returned to it (some of the hallucinations have remained as themes in my artwork, though). I also tried mushrooms once in that same period, but either they were duds, or the fact that I took a hit of dmt (only time with that as well) immediately prior to eating them caused the effects to become less noticable (I was giggly, as Laurens said he was, but no visual distortion). I've taken a fair share of prescription narcotics, mostly ones prescribed to me for various medical issues (I used what I needed at the time and stashed the rest). And last week I experimented with aderol, as I had exams and the weather was just too beautiful for me to stay focused. Its, I dunno, different. I wasnt all "OMG this fucking RULES!", but rather "wow, this kitchen is DIRTY". Its the only upper Ive ever done, and I still dont know exactly how I feel about it. I dont plan on trying cocaine any time soon.

As far as a personal experience, Ill go with the dmt as my fun one. We were picking up the mushrooms (which were gifts), and the guy asks if we wanted to try it. He explained what it was, what it would do, and how long it would last (not even 5 minutes). I say "well why not?" and took a puff. It was the most disgusting thing I have ever tasted, sort of like inhaling the smoke from burning plastic. But, after a few seconds, I started seeing things. It was nighttime and overcast, so the sky had a sort of orange glow. We were flanked by two rows of trees, and the one I was staring at had a hole through which I could see the sky. I saw what I can only describe as "warp drive vision", as it appeared that I was traveling at an immense speed through the hole in the tree. Then, there was a wash of changing colors, which were determined by whatever I was looking at (like darker things were in shades of colors, and lighter ones in pastels). The sky melted in a tornado of color, and that was it. I didnt even finish my ciggarette by the time it ended, although for about ten minutes I swore I saw birds falling from the sky and turning into cats as soon as they hit the ground, running away. And it was over. Like I said, the shrooms didnt do much, and I dont know exactly why (although Im betting they were just crap).

I'm curious what the moral side affects of drugs are...

Well, first off, it requires one to follow a certain set of morals. There are a core few, like lying, stealing, assaulting someone in an unwarranted situation, that most people on earth subscribe to. Most of these fall into the legal side when it comes to drugs (or anything, really), but if you dont get caught its only morally wrong. Lying is something that comes quite easily to drug users (at least when you discuss it with people who arent cool with it). When i first started smoking, I was living at home and had to sneak it around (I still do, but Im at least open to the fact that I do it). Once or twice I got caught, and my mother would be near tears about it. I felt like crap, and would quit for a while (more so that the heat would die down), but her views and my own on the matter are quite different (her main rebuttal was "but its illegal!"). Addicts probably face the most moral damage, as chances are they are very different in personality and behavior when on or off drugs. Anywho, it all comes down to who you care about and what you believe in, and I dont believe there are set examples for it.

I should not be told I cannot consume cocaine because some people don't have the willpower to use drugs responsibly.

If we applied the logic that we apply to drugs to everything else, no one would be allowed to do anything.

Hrm...true, I do see your point, and I do understand that there are people who can handle much more than I, but concerning the hardcore drugs I would say blanket laws do more good than harm. If x people out of y cannot handle it, and x is greater than y (in the case of substance abuse I would agree with this), then a blanket law like that protects x people while making things difficult for y, where if there were no such laws, then z people (the ammount in x that would consider doing it) are put in considerable risk at the cost of allowing w people (those of y that do partake) to freely enjoy themselves. But, with things like weed and shrooms, I see that the prohibition is unjust as they are relatively safe (even compared to some pharmacuticals).

What is ideal (from my point of view) would be to have anyone who wishes to purchase and use drugs go to a physician (of course, this visit would not be supported by you insurance plan), find out what your recommended dosage is, obtain a prescription/permission form, and buy from a store. No shady people, no immediate dangers (either from not knowing the strength or actual makeup of the stuff), and, hey, taxable! But this does not mean that the danger is abolished; there will always be people taking more than they should (how much asprin can kill you?), people selling it illicitly to those "unfit" to use it, and, of course, the compendium of stupid shit you might do while high. There will always be danger in life (as far as I can see into the future), we just have to learn to control it.

 

[Lallapalalable]

And when I think that these people are going to have more access to the very things causing these problems I shudder at the possible outcomes
perhaps my experience is not normal or representative of these groups as a whole

I would say not. I have never met a stoner (as in pot smokers) who had any violent tendencies while using the drug. Look at the difference in the two situations:

...in recent years the university I have attended has has controversy with a pro-marujuana group (Who had violent clashes with police leading to several arrests)...

Would they have anything to protest if it was legal? Were they high at the time? I guaruntee, if they were all under the influence there wouldnt have been a demonstration at all.

...and serious problems with public drunkenness culminating into arson of property, obstruction of fire fighters sent to stop said blaze and eventually a mini riot which was stopped by the police in full riot gear

I assume they were drunk at the time of the arsons, as well as the riot. Would you assume they are "normal" people when not inhebriated?

The difference is that alcohol causes people to react before thinking, where pot just makes you lazy, but filled with amusing thoughts. Also, you can find anything interesting. The drunk people did what they did because they were drunk, where the pot heads were acting over a deep seeded issue.

There is a presumption that an emotion is initially caused by facial expression. Test this, for example, you wish to feel happiness, smile, you'll find in doing so, it's easier to think of happy thoughts, rather than when you frown.

Ive heard of that, but more that facial expressions and thoughts are tied together, rather than one being soley reliant on the other. You cant help but smile when you are happy, and when you wear a frown all the time you cant help but feel depressed. Thats why people in B movies can only act like someone waiting for a paycheck.

 

[Lurking_Logic]

I would say not.

Would they have anything to protest if it was legal?

probably not
but then the laws are only loosely enforced (Hence why their protests are allowed with generally minimal fuss)

Were they high at the time? I guaruntee, if they were all under the influence there wouldnt have been a demonstration at all.

I'm not sure if they were or not
they have a weekly protest "smoke up" on campus as a protest
the violent clash happened during one of these and involved smokers (Including the head of the protest group)

I assume they were drunk at the time of the arsons, as well as the riot.

very much so

Would you assume they are "normal" people when not inhebriated?

Trying to put my rather cynical view of other students aside
yeah many are probably at least semi normal (I have also had alot of negative experiences with sober students as well)

The difference is that alcohol causes people to react before thinking, where pot just makes you lazy, but filled with amusing thoughts. Also, you can find anything interesting. The drunk people did what they did because they were drunk, where the pot heads were acting over a deep seeded issue.

I agree on the alcohol part
but the smokers reacted in a way that i found completely over the top to what was a non-issue

(if you are wondering the incident was caused when they found they were being monitered by undercover police officers investigating the selling of drugs to high school students during their protests)

Now I know what you are saying and I will openly admit my own negative experiences are nowhere near representative or objective
but from a personal stand point I just haven't seen any reason to legalise these things when they are causing problems now and indeed I could probably see some of the more extreme aspects (particularly alcohol) needing major changes before I support greater legality