Diet Help...

[Giliell]

But please stay sensible. There's a good shape for everybody and for most people it's not what is shown in the magazines. People come in different sizes and proportions.

Yes of course. To say more then I actually would like to divulge, a large part of it would be practicality. Currently I'm one or two sizes too large in terms of jeans to buy confection wares in your average store here. They only go till size 38 and I need 40 - 42. (sizes go per 2 here, don't ask me why)

Hmm, I know what you're talking about, shopping for clothes can be quite depressing and expensive. My first child was so kind to completely ruin my figure. Not only did she leave all the lbs on my ribs, she also ruined the proportions. Before, if a jeans fitted over my legs and butt, I could be sure it would fit at the waistline. Now I don't have a waistline anymore, it resembles more the equator. Which means buying everything one size larger.
Heck, I'll be happy the day I fit into corsets again!

 

[borrofburi]

1) Drink 1 gallon of water within 1 hour per day for 1 whole week (at least 5 days straight.)
2) Drink 1 gallon of water per day, but not so fast. Just make sure you reach 1 gallon per day after the first step.
3) As you do steps 1 and 2, run and jog everywhere you can. I don't care if it's to the TV. You need to burn energy, and the body stores energy as fat. You do the math. And I mean RUN OR JOG EVERYWHERE!
4) Stay AWAY from high-fat cal foods.
5) Eat at least 6 times a day, but VERY small portions. Eat only to stay alive without that gas feeling in your stomach. If you don't feel gas in your stomach, don't fucking eat. The second you just want to taste something, drink some of your water. The feeling will leave very quickly.
6) Repeat steps 1 - 5 as you continue to be active in your pursuit. Try to do some push ups here and there too.

No, this is bad. First, I'm not sure (1) is safe, and we were discussing how much water you can possibly drink and process in another thread, and it was well below a gallon. Also (4) has a problem, namely that fats are not evil, mostly we just eat the wrong balance of omega 6 and omega 3 fats; cutting fat out of your diet is a bad and unhealthy move. But perhaps more importantly, this whole thing is a "starve yourself" diet, and while it will indeed work, the instant you stop doing it you will gain it all back, if you want to lose it and keep it off, it's going to require a fundamental lifestyle change, and there are better ways to do it than be starving all the time.

 

[QuanSai]

1) Drink 1 gallon of water within 1 hour per day for 1 whole week (at least 5 days straight.)
2) Drink 1 gallon of water per day, but not so fast. Just make sure you reach 1 gallon per day after the first step.
3) As you do steps 1 and 2, run and jog everywhere you can. I don't care if it's to the TV. You need to burn energy, and the body stores energy as fat. You do the math. And I mean RUN OR JOG EVERYWHERE!
4) Stay AWAY from high-fat cal foods.
5) Eat at least 6 times a day, but VERY small portions. Eat only to stay alive without that gas feeling in your stomach. If you don't feel gas in your stomach, don't fucking eat. The second you just want to taste something, drink some of your water. The feeling will leave very quickly.
6) Repeat steps 1 - 5 as you continue to be active in your pursuit. Try to do some push ups here and there too.

No, this is bad. First, I'm not sure (1) is safe, and we were discussing how much water you can possibly drink and process in another thread, and it was well below a gallon. Also (4) has a problem, namely that fats are not evil, mostly we just eat the wrong balance of omega 6 and omega 3 fats; cutting fat out of your diet is a bad and unhealthy move. But perhaps more importantly, this whole thing is a "starve yourself" diet, and while it will indeed work, the instant you stop doing it you will gain it all back, if you want to lose it and keep it off, it's going to require a fundamental lifestyle change, and there are better ways to do it than be starving all the time.

It isn't a "starve yourself" diet. I made the concept of eating constantly quite clear, but I did stress that eating should only be for survival. Fats are not evil, but you're preaching the same bullshit commercial diets preach. Don't enforce the consumption of fat at this point. He has enough energy to burn at 400lbs. And 1 gallon of water is a great amount to keep things moving and to get things moving.

 

[scalyblue]

The advice that Quan has given can be dangerous; it's best to be advised by a registered dietitian. One answers questions in her spare time at http://www.dietitian.com

Yes, it is possible for a person to drink too much water. It is called water intoxication. What happens is the sodium level in the blood reaches very low levels (because of dilution by excess water which can only be excreted in the urine, sweat or breath). This disturbs water balance in the brain, which can cause epileptic seizures and even death.

Research has shown that a person can safely drink up to 10 liters of water a day. That would equal 10 one-liter bottles of water. An exception would be persons with kidney disease who are limited in the amount of water they can drink per day. Persons with bladder infections benefit from increasing their water intake.

And a gallon is a bit over 3 liters.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

It isn't a "starve yourself" diet. I made the concept of eating constantly quite clear, but I did stress that eating should only be for survival. Fats are not evil, but you're preaching the same bullshit commercial diets preach. Don't enforce the consumption of fat at this point. He has enough energy to burn at 400lbs. And 1 gallon of water is a great amount to keep things moving and to get things moving.

Yeah, but at 400 pounds he can lose weight at 2000-2500 calories a day. He can eat a pretty large amount of food and still lose weight.

 

[scalyblue]

Aside from getting more physical activity, the other change you can do is to get into foods with a much lower caloric density. This tends to go hand in hand with foods that are high in fiber; and the only real side effect to consuming 3-400g of fiber a day is flatuence

 

[QuanSai]

It isn't a "starve yourself" diet. I made the concept of eating constantly quite clear, but I did stress that eating should only be for survival. Fats are not evil, but you're preaching the same bullshit commercial diets preach. Don't enforce the consumption of fat at this point. He has enough energy to burn at 400lbs. And 1 gallon of water is a great amount to keep things moving and to get things moving.

Yeah, but at 400 pounds he can lose weight at 2000-2500 calories a day. He can eat a pretty large amount of food and still lose weight.

Do you know how much 2000 - 2500 calories a day is? He's not an athlete. I mean, it's not much if this guy could exercise a lot, but he seemed to stress his inability to do so.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Do you know how much 2000 - 2500 calories a day is? He's not an athlete. I mean, it's not much if this guy could exercise a lot, but he seemed to stress his inability to do so.

Yeah, I know exactly how much it is. Do you understand what it is like to carry an extra 200+ pounds on you 24/7? His caloric needs are higher than that of someone who weighs 170 pounds.

 

[Giliell]

Do you know how much 2000 - 2500 calories a day is? He's not an athlete. I mean, it's not much if this guy could exercise a lot, but he seemed to stress his inability to do so.

yes, 2000 is about the amount a normal weight woman needs a day, 2500 the amount a man needs a day. So 2000 would already be too little for a normal man to keep his weight.

 

[QuanSai]

Do you know how much 2000 - 2500 calories a day is? He's not an athlete. I mean, it's not much if this guy could exercise a lot, but he seemed to stress his inability to do so.

Yeah, I know exactly how much it is. Do you understand what it is like to carry an extra 200+ pounds on you 24/7? His caloric needs are higher than that of someone who weighs 170 pounds.

Didn't I mention that I was 286lbs? He won't die taking in enough food to survive.

 

[FCAAP_Dan]

Do you know how much 2000 - 2500 calories a day is? He's not an athlete. I mean, it's not much if this guy could exercise a lot, but he seemed to stress his inability to do so.

Yeah, I know exactly how much it is. Do you understand what it is like to carry an extra 200+ pounds on you 24/7? His caloric needs are higher than that of someone who weighs 170 pounds.

Caloric needs depend a lot on activity.

Even at 400 lbs, someone just sitting around the house all day watching TV is going to need a lot less calories than someone 170 lbs that works hard all day and jogs at night.


So yes, two people doing the same things, the larger person will need slightly more calories, but in the grand scheme of things if they needed more than they were eating they wouldn't be 400 lbs. Some get fat on 2000 calories a day, some lose weight on 2000 calories a day. Comes down to activity. But basal metabolic rate does factor into it too.

 

[FCAAP_Dan]

I've always questioned the accuracy of these things, but it demonstrates my point nicely.

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

5'11", 170, 28 years old - 1836.4 calories for BMR
5'11", 400 lbs, 28 years old - 3269

I still doubt the accuracy of that though. I have a feeling someone 400 lbs doesn't have that good of a metabolism or they wouldn't be 400 lbs.

 

[QuanSai]

I've always questioned the accuracy of these things, but it demonstrates my point nicely.

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

5'11", 170, 28 years old - 1836.4 calories for BMR
5'11", 400 lbs, 28 years old - 3269

I still doubt the accuracy of that though. I have a feeling someone 400 lbs doesn't have that good of a metabolism or they wouldn't be 400 lbs.

I tried stressing this in one of my earlier posts...

 

[Giliell]

Hmm, I think the amount of calories you need a day just for maintaining that weight (no activity added) is around 23 calories/day/kg.

BTW, if you consider things from an evpolutionary point of view, to put on fat easily IS having a good metabolism because the were no Mc D's in the caves.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I've always questioned the accuracy of these things, but it demonstrates my point nicely.

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

5'11", 170, 28 years old - 1836.4 calories for BMR
5'11", 400 lbs, 28 years old - 3269

I still doubt the accuracy of that though. I have a feeling someone 400 lbs doesn't have that good of a metabolism or they wouldn't be 400 lbs.

Yeah, but if they didn't have that metabolism they might shoot up to 800?

Even if that number you came up with is off by 20%, that's still 2615 calories. That means that if someone at 400 lbs eats 2000 calories a day, that leaves them 615 in the hole daily, or... -4305 calories a week. One pound of weight is approximately 3500 calories, so that means weight loss of a bit over one pound per week, around 64 pounds in a year. Add some light exercise and the weight loss goes up even more. There's no reason to attempt an extreme diet, when a rational, healthy, moderate option is available. Plus, it is much easier to stick to a 2000 calorie diet than to one calling for 1200 or even 1500.

 

[FCAAP_Dan]

Hmm, I think the amount of calories you need a day just for maintaining that weight (no activity added) is around 23 calories/day/kg.

The problem with that estimate is it doesn't account for different types of kg. Muscle, fat, and brown fat all use a different amount of energy. A 300 lbs fat person and a 300 lbs bodybuilding will still have different resting metabolic rates.

Which is partially why I think that calculator is inaccurate.

Even if that number you came up with is off by 20%, that's still 2615 calories. That means that if someone at 400 lbs eats 2000 calories a day, that leaves them 615 in the hole daily, or... -4305 calories a week. One pound of weight is approximately 3500 calories, so that means weight loss of a bit over one pound per week, around 64 pounds in a year. Add some light exercise and the weight loss goes up even more. There's no reason to attempt an extreme diet, when a rational, healthy, moderate option is available. Plus, it is much easier to stick to a 2000 calorie diet than to one calling for 1200 or even 1500.

20% is a big margin of error though! I highly doubt the calculator is correct when the bodyweight is that high. I'm sure it's a good estimate for people in a normal weight range.

But I agree, unless a 400 lbs person is very active, 2000 calories a day should be about right I'm sure. It's not starving that's for sure. In the extreme case, a 400 lbs sedentary person may not even need 2000 calories.

And a mile of walking a day will add another pound a month to the weight loss.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

But I agree, unless a 400 lbs person is very active, 2000 calories a day should be about right I'm sure. It's not starving that's for sure. In the extreme case, a 400 lbs sedentary person may not even need 2000 calories.

And a mile of walking a day will add another pound a month to the weight loss.

When you break the numbers down, it looks fairly simple. Slow, tedious, difficult to stick to, but certainly not complicated.

 

[Salv]

It isn't a "starve yourself" diet. .... Don't enforce the consumption of fat at this point. He has enough energy to burn at 400lbs.

Linoleic acid is an omega-6, polyunsaturated fatty acid, can not be produced by the body and must be consumed in the diet, it is thus an essential fatty acid

There are two families of EFAs: ω-3 (or omega-3 or n−3) and ω-6 (omega-6, n−6). Fats from each of these families are essential, as the body can convert one omega-3 to another omega-3, for example, but cannot create an omega-3 from omega-6 or saturated fats

There are many beneficial qualities of fats, cutting them out is a no no. A balanced diet would be the best route to go methinks.

I hardly get as much exercise as I would like. I only walk briskly about an hour a day; to and from work. I don't use the elevator at work...etc. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 180 pounds. I don't work out as much as I should but I don't eat unless I'm hungry and when I eat I try and balance it out as much as I can. I stay away from as many animal fats as I can. There is definitely no need for drastic measures. I hardly ever snack and I eat three meals a day. I drink fuck loads of coffee though, which probably doesn't help.

 

[Salv]

Just to add a little more here. I really feel it's important to understand how and why the body requires certain vitamins, minerals, etc. I believe if someone understands these things they're less likely to overeat and more likely to eat a little healthier. Not only will you feel better, but you'll shit easier.

Paraphrased from http://www.udoerasmus.com/FAQ/FAQ1_en.htm, about the benefits of some essential fats I'm sure you can find more if you do a quick google search.

The body converts the n-3 and n-6 EFAs into several n-3 and n-6 derivatives with important functions in the body
The best known derivatives of n-3 are EPA and DHA, which are made by the body and are also found in high fat, cold water fish. DHA is the major brain n-3. Derivatives of n-6 include GLA (found in evening primrose oil), DGLA (found in mother's milk), and AA (found in meat, eggs, and dairy products, as well as in fish). AA is the major brain n-6.

From the n-3 derivative called EPA, the body makes hormone-like series 3 eicosanoids, and from two n-6 derivatives called DGLA and AA, the body makes hormone-like series 1 and series 2 eicosanoids, respectively. Eicosanoids regulate many functions in all tissues on a moment-to-moment basis, from conception until death. A more comprehensive look at EFAs, derivatives, and eicosanoids is found on page 20 of Fats That Heal Fats That Kill

Essential fatty acids have many functions throughout the body. They are involved in:

Energy production - stamina increased
Brain Function - consistent improvements in brain function
EFAs are required for healthy skin and hair
N-3 EFAs lower cancer risk
N-3 can decrease most CVD risk factors (Cardiovascular Disease)
EFAs are required for insulin function
N-6 slightly and n-3 more effectively help reduce fat production in the body
EFAs improve gut integrity
EFAs reduce symptoms of allergies
N-3 reduce inflammation
EFAs speed the healing of injuries
N-3 improve bone mineral retention
...etc, etc, etc.

 

[FatStupidAmerican]

OK, first thing: Don't do any "protein shake" "potato" any such stuff diet.

This is all from experience but as an athlete I find whey protein powers to be indispensable. It is important to note that I said whey. I was a vegetarian for a time, and during that time I gained a lot of weight, and my progress in the gym was very slow. When i switched over to quality whey protein I started noticing a difference in weight loss and improvements in the gym.

What I've been doing has been keeping my complex carbohydrates intake low and keeping high protein intake, and spacing my meals out to 5 small meals. I've lost about forty lbs from April to August. I've plateaued at this point, so I gotta start revamping the workout and diet.