Death

[Exmortis]

It's funny...... Humanity...

We cling to life, whether you believe in god or not. I find it unnessary... why fight the inevitable...?

In my oppinion death is a release and whether I die in my bed tomorrow, or in the future in a far off war. In my moment of death, I will laugh...


...for death is the only true peace....

 

[Giliell]

Well, I certainly enjoy being alive now, I don't mind doing it for another 50 years.
Yet, I accept death as a part of life and I hope that I can let go in my time.
I've seen it in a few realtives, I can see it in my grandparents now. They made precautions about what medical treatment they want and they don't even like the idea of living for 20 more years because their lives are becomming "smaller", more limited.

 

[Photolysis]

I live because I enjoy living. When I become completely bored of life, or unable to live it as I would like due to illness or old age, then I'll have no problems with dying.

I long ago accepted death was the price of living and made my peace with it.

 

[Abi]

... why fight the inevitable...?

Because it's encoded into our brains from before we were born.


Also, saying "lol I'm not afraid of dying" doesn't make you look mature or brave. Next time you have a near death experience, you can come back and express than opinion.

 

[Giliell]

Because it's encoded into our brains from before we were born.


Also, saying "lol I'm not afraid of dying" doesn't make you look mature or brave. Next time you have a near death experience, you can come back and express than opinion.

Well, I haven't had any and I agree with you: such big questions cannot be answered unless you've been there.
But I've seen people facing their death and accepting it, without fear or regret.
I can only hope to be the same when my time comes.

 

[WolfAU]

Life has its ups and downs. In some ways I wish for immortality, in this life or in another, and in some ways the promise of mortality is very comforting. For instance if I was truly immortal. As long as this planet persists so do I, and any attempts to kill myself would be futile, then inevitably, my death, and the last thing I saw would be a cataclysmic event like when our sun goes through a phase shift, or the complete destruction of out planet. The fact that in all likelihood my death will be a single, isolated event of no real social significance beyond those who care for me is to a degree comforting. There is also the issue that being immortal means I would see more harm, probably more than my psyche could withstand, and there's the promis that this is all finite, my life can only last a certain number years left, making my life more special and meaningful to a degree because of it, and also I see paralelles to it wiping the slate clean (ie if there is no heaven/hell then I don't have to carry my emotional baggage around for eternity).

Fear of death is our fairly innate, instinctual reaction, and as we mature, we usually learn to let go of this. However religion provides a crutch that gives those faithful a means to not have to grow up and mature.

I think I am in the majority when I say the thought of my own death scares me far less than the thought of living on with the loss of certain individuals in my life. As such you could say that is the source of my fear of death (my fear that it can leave me alone in this world, rather than end my life).

Basically, I accept death in my life as inevitable, necessary and in some ways preferable to the alternative. However I would prefer not to die for a really bad reason (ie run over by a drunk, or medical malpractice), and would prefer to live longer (~150 years would be nice), and would rather live with as much happiness and dignity as medicine can give me (congitive function, physical health, maybe even prolonged youth).

The main issue I see with prolonged life, and prolonged physical health (ie we don't become weak and frail in our old age) is that it will mean we'll be milked financially for longer (ie retirement will become prohibatively costly, since we're not seen to really need it), as such it doesn't really improve our quality of life, it just prolongs our life.

 

[Photolysis]

Also, saying "lol I'm not afraid of dying" doesn't make you look mature or brave. Next time you have a near death experience, you can come back and express than opinion.

In my case, I don't care. I'm not trying to impress anyone with a false display of bravado. I'm simply stating my honest thoughts on the subject. Though if someone can give a reasoned explanation of why they don't fear death, then that does demonstrate maturity; childish ideals of magical lands of paradise with infinite happiness, conversely, are not mature.

Secondly, death and dying are not the same. Most people don't look forward to the process of dying for fear it will be drawn out and painful. I'm not saying I'm not afraid of dying either. I wouldn't be afraid of it if I knew it was going to be quick and painless, but until I know for sure that this is the case, I will remain afraid of it, or at least, afraid of that possibility. Also, I don't think anyone else has stated they are not afraid of dying, only they are not afraid of death. There's no need to be so dismissive of something no one said.

Thirdly, just because someone accepts the inevitability of death, it doesn't mean they won't seek to avoid it where possible. I accept the fact I will die some day, but does that mean if someone puts a gun to my head and says "give me your money" that I'll shrug it off because it's inevitable? No, of course not, I'll give them the damn money, because in this case, it is definitely not inevitable.

 

[Juuso]

Death's never been such a big deal for me since I've been confronted by it a good portion of my life but I do, for the most part not want to die any time soon.

But I tend to have highs and lows with no real middle ground as well so there are times I do want to die, but to get to that point usually takes something rather drastic.

Anyway, honestly, my only thoughts on death are that I want to live long enough to do something but not live so long as to become nothing more than a burden for my friends and family, I wouldn't want to inflict my feebleness on them.

 

[scalyblue]

I'll throw in my two bits.

I am not afraid of death, that's moronic.

I am, however, afraid of dying.

 

[Exmortis]

... Of course death causes unease in me, if it did not then I would be the biggest fool on the planet. However I am not phased by the idea that I must die...

Deities aside, death would be like turning off a television set. There would be a flash of light various sensations as the consiness begins to collapse, then nothing, darkness... the complete absense of all thought or feeling... death; The ultimate peace.

This is of course only my opinion and there is no evidence to support this theory, so attempting to disprove my opinion would be rather futile.

 

[Juuso]

I was dead once, for about 3-4 minutes.

I don't remember much but I felt crappy the next morning which is the next time I can remember.

 

[mandangalo18]

I find it unnessary... why fight the inevitable...?

dude you can't enjoy sex if you're dead.

 

[richi1173]

It's funny...... Humanity...

We cling to life, whether you believe in god or not. I find it unnessary... why fight the inevitable...?

In my oppinion death is a release and whether I die in my bed tomorrow, or in the future in a far off war. In my moment of death, I will laugh...


...for death is the only true peace....

The last statement is a leap of faith. We don't know whats after death.

Anyways, I want to concentrate on "I find it unnecessary... why fight the inevitable... ?

We fight death because it is NOT inevitable. As an individual in the past, present, and in the near future, death was, is and will be inevitable, but as a society, it is not.

Your physical body might decay, but your ideas and memory lives on through other members of the society.

Using those ideas and memories, in 200 years we have extended our lifetime two-fold.

In the future, with science and technology increasing exponentially, we might just overcome death.

To put it shortly:

 

[WolfAU]

The last statement is a leap of faith. We don't know whats after death.

There is no evidence of a soul or any means by which an afterlife is possible... I think stating there is no afterlife is much more than a simple "leap of faith" and sounds like wishful thinking on your part (or a confused sense of intellectual honesty).

As for the rest.... WHAT?
I sense there is some poetic BS I'm unable to see through, but if you mean a more literal sense of death being inevitable, then you're either talking about technology that is impossible (ie we can make humans tougher, less prone to accidental death, prolong youth indefinately etc), which would still mean we'd die, sooner or later, or some kind of undesireable, freak-of-nature approach like mind upload.

If you're talking metaphorically about human identity being ideas and memories, as long as they exist they are not truly dead... erm, yeah thats nice, its also hollow words. If I had a choice between dying tomorrow and being remembered for hundreds of years, or living a full life, I'd choose the latter because the former means I can't have any fun, can't accomplish any more, can't watch the further progress of man, can't marry or raise children... can't play Starcraft 2 .

 

[richi1173]

There is no evidence of a soul or any means by which an afterlife is possible... I think stating there is no afterlife is much more than a simple "leap of faith" and sounds like wishful thinking on your part (or a confused sense of intellectual honesty).

Mehh, that is why I said I wasn't going to concentrate on that. There is no sense in arguing an unknown.

As for the rest.... WHAT?
I sense there is some poetic BS I'm unable to see through, but if you mean a more literal sense of death being inevitable, then you're either talking about technology that is impossible (ie we can make humans tougher, less prone to accidental death, prolong youth indefinately etc), which would still mean we'd die, sooner or later, or some kind of undesireable, freak-of-nature approach like mind upload.

I said death WAS inevitable . At least for the near future it is inevitable. After all, the field of senescence is very young.

If you're talking metaphorically about human identity being ideas and memories, as long as they exist they are not truly dead... erm, yeah thats nice, its also hollow words. If I had a choice between dying tomorrow and being remembered for hundreds of years, or living a full life, I'd choose the latter because the former means I can't have any fun, can't accomplish any more, can't watch the further progress of man, can't marry or raise children... can't play Starcraft 2 .

No, I wasn't referring to any particular person being remembered, but the ideas and memories of that person.

For example, we all owe our healthy lives to the Germ Theory of Disease of Louis Pasteur: this idea, until this day, keep aiding society.

We fight death because society benefits from it in the long run, and human society has survived and thrived because of this for 100,000+ years.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

 

[WolfAU]

At least for the near future it is inevitable.

There is nothing we can do to completely eradicate death. We can make it so people are immune to all theoretical diseases and most toxins, and their bodies regenerate (ie they do not age), but this won't change the fact that sooner or later, something will happen to end their life (war, natural disaster, some accident, suicide, murder etc), even if thats after a life span of thousands or millions of years.

No, I wasn't referring to any particular person being remembered, but the ideas and memories of that person.
For example, we all owe our healthy lives to the Germ Theory of Disease of Louis Pasteur: this idea, until this day, keep aiding society.
We fight death because society benefits from it in the long run, and human society has survived and thrived because of this for 100,000+ years.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Not sure. You're arguing a sort of cumulative "on the backs of giants" type statement? But again, that doesn't change or address the issue that the preservation of my own life or someone I care about is important not just for their social value, but their personal value (ie socialising with them, enjoying their company, being loved by or comforted/inspired by them).

As for, "because society benefits from it in the long run", two problems, first this technology is going to become increasingly costly on our resources (ie, say if 60% of a nations productivity is focused just on maintaining the lives of its citizens), and secondly, unless drastic action is taken, if this occurs without further balancing actions (ie widespread contraception), we will quickly become overpopulated, which I think is safe to call not beneficial to society in the long run.

 

[richi1173]

There is nothing we can do to completely eradicate death. We can make it so people are immune to all theoretical diseases and most toxins, and their bodies regenerate (ie they do not age), but this won't change the fact that sooner or later, something will happen to end their life (war, natural disaster, some accident, suicide, murder etc), even if thats after a life span of thousands or millions of years.

I agree, but speculating on the future is very difficult. And as for mind transfer technology, I don't find it undesirable.

Not sure. You're arguing a sort of cumulative "on the backs of giants" type statement? But again, that doesn't change or address the issue that the preservation of my own life or someone I care about is important not just for their social value, but their personal value (ie socialising with them, enjoying their company, being loved by or comforted/inspired by them).

Yes, that is what I'm referring too.

Isn't personal value part of social value since a family is part of society?

As for, "because society benefits from it in the long run", two problems, first this technology is going to become increasingly costly on our resources (ie, say if 60% of a nations productivity is focused just on maintaining the lives of its citizens), and secondly, unless drastic action is taken, if this occurs without further balancing actions (ie widespread contraception), we will quickly become overpopulated, which I think is safe to call not beneficial to society in the long run.

[/quote]
That is the whole point that I was trying to make.

We need people alive to solve these problems; so life is not without purpose.

That is what I was trying to explain to ExMortis when he said "We cling to life...I find it unnecessary...why fight the inevitable?"

Also, current research kind of contradicts the conclusion that the planet will become overpopulated relative to today.
For example, the death rate and birth rate in the UK are almost identical.
UK death rate: 10.02 per 1000 of population
UK birth rate: 10.25 per 1000 of population

France has a higher birth rate than death rate, but Germany has a substantial gap between its death rate and birth rate.
Germany death rate: 10.90 per 1000 of population
Germany birth rate: 8.18 per 1000 of population.

The United States is particular because it gets a large degree of immigration.

It seems that the general trend is that in first world countries people just stop having babies.

 

[WolfAU]

I agree, but speculating on the future is very difficult. And as for mind transfer technology, I don't find it undesirable.

Allow me to demonstrate why is undesireable.
... Lets say I was offer you money to use my big, shiny impressive cloning machine to take a swab of your DNA, and make a fully functional adult clone of you. It is like you in every way imaginable, same thoughts, same memories, and if your family or best friend was to interrogate both of you, they would be completely unable to distinguish which one was you and which was the clone.

Now I offer you money (say $100) to do something nasty to kill you, would you do it? Why or why not? What about to do the same to a loved one (ie girlfriend/wife, clone and kill the original)?

Odds are you (and others) would answer no, because that individual is not "You", it is a seperate unit of consciousness in the same way that identical twins are not the same person (ie not a hive mind). This is why I would never use any kind of "matter transporter" form of teleportation on myself (even if it was 100% reliable, it is still essentially killing you, and building a replacement at the other end).

Also, current research kind of contradicts the conclusion that the planet will become overpopulated relative to today.
For example, the death rate and birth rate in the UK are almost identical.

You're making the assumption that as the death rate plummets (as we make better medicines and prolong life) the birthrate will decline as well, there is no real evidence to support that. Plus you're talking about western countries with western cultural values (ie in India, China etc they are still very family oriented, and the issue of children/grandchildren is still something that is more or less culturally expected).

My point is we don't really have any reason to conclude this trend will continue, or even not reverse (suddenly people want to breed like crazy again), meaning that while naturally, this is kept in check by rather brutal means (starvation, disease etc), with our technology we can stop this, but this means there is nothing to keep our numbers in check... to which, worst case scenario... total societal collapse (crime, political instability etc etc)... though one would hope by that stage basic space colonisation would be being considered.

 

[Lunar Sonata]

It's funny...... Humanity...

We cling to life, whether you believe in god or not. I find it unnessary... why fight the inevitable...?

Not sure whether you are being honest or you are brooding. Either way, this is kind of emo.

To put things into perspective, life is limited and death is eternal... I think this is a good reason to see the value in life. It won't last forever

Life is not unnecessary unless you want it to be... but the thing is, waiting for death takes time. The problem with this is that the mind, in the absence of seeing any confirmation of wanting to live, will try to speed things along.


We fight the inevitable b.c we have purpose. Without purpose, or goals, death is perhaps the only thing the mind looks forward to. In the absence of meaning, death is the only meaning... and life becomes arbitrary.

In my oppinion death is a release and whether I die in my bed tomorrow, or in the future in a far off war. In my moment of death, I will laugh...


...for death is the only true peace....

Then maybe go have some cake.

One who is motivated only by death will find what they're looking for.

 

[Exmortis]

To put things into perspective, life is limited and death is eternal... I think this is a good reason to see the value in life. It won't last forever

... Correct... death is eternal...

On the universal scale... even if humanity found the secret of immortality... they would still be doomed... the death of the universe... as the solar systems move outward, resources are depleted, suns go out...

However you look at it.... death reigns supreme...