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Dealing with Kyle Butts

U

Understudy

New Member
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
Hi All,

I have been dealing with an Apologetic named Kyle Butts. I have been going through an email exchange with him over a hideous article he wrote about picking up sticks on the sabbath. He wrote another article on evolution. I decided to take him to task on this one. Please let me know what you think.

http://www.understudy.net/archives/00000182.html

Sincerely,
Brendhan
 
arg-fallbackName="Aught3"/>
Wow the colour scheme is too painful to read, why don't you post the pertinent bits here.
 
arg-fallbackName="JustBusiness17"/>
Looks like you're going after a guy with a profit motive... That complicates things a lot. I would start by establishing what he would do with his business if you changed his mind. If he relies on his drivel as a source of income, he'll rationalize in circles forever. But thats just speculation.

Creationists really get their strength from bouncing from one fallacy to another faster than its possible to expose the flaws in their arguments. They'll get you talking about 10 things at once so even if you nail 5, you still haven't proven him wrong. Those defeats won't register either and it will creep back into the conversation later... If you can slow the conversation down to a pace where its possible to explain the science, you might have a chance at getting through to him.

To do this, you'll need him isolate his strongest reason for believing evolution is a lie. Get him to really clarify the point and keep him focused on that one thing. Its important you are 100% certain what he's discussing and that he really commits to that point as the smoking gun argument against evolution. Seriously, you need him focused on just one single issue and nothing else. As soon as you've done that, you'll be ready to strike.

This is the only way I really see making any progress against a creationist...
 
arg-fallbackName="Whitelightning1161"/>
JustBusiness17 said:
Looks like you're going after a guy with a profit motive... That complicates things a lot. I would start by establishing what he would do with his business if you changed his mind. If he relies on his drivel as a source of income, he'll rationalize in circles forever. But thats just speculation.

Creationists really get their strength from bouncing from one fallacy to another faster than its possible to expose the flaws in their arguments. They'll get you talking about 10 things at once so even if you nail 5, you still haven't proven him wrong. Those defeats won't register either and it will creep back into the conversation later... If you can slow the conversation down to a pace where its possible to explain the science, you might have a chance at getting through to him.

To do this, you'll need him isolate his strongest reason for believing evolution is a lie. Get him to really clarify the point and keep him focused on that one thing. Its important you are 100% certain what he's discussing and that he really commits to that point as the smoking gun argument against evolution. Seriously, you need him focused on just one single issue and nothing else. As soon as you've done that, you'll be ready to strike.

This is the only way I really see making any progress against a creationist...
Click to expand...
yes that works very well, I have had a creationist realize that i was right about evolution not requiring faith, so then he tried to change the topic, and the definition of faith
Just keep him talking about one topic at a time, and you should be fine.
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
JustBusiness17 said:
Looks like you're going after a guy with a profit motive... That complicates things a lot. I would start by establishing what he would do with his business if you changed his mind. If he relies on his drivel as a source of income, he'll rationalize in circles forever. But thats just speculation.

Creationists really get their strength from bouncing from one fallacy to another faster than its possible to expose the flaws in their arguments. They'll get you talking about 10 things at once so even if you nail 5, you still haven't proven him wrong. Those defeats won't register either and it will creep back into the conversation later... If you can slow the conversation down to a pace where its possible to explain the science, you might have a chance at getting through to him.

To do this, you'll need him isolate his strongest reason for believing evolution is a lie. Get him to really clarify the point and keep him focused on that one thing. Its important you are 100% certain what he's discussing and that he really commits to that point as the smoking gun argument against evolution. Seriously, you need him focused on just one single issue and nothing else. As soon as you've done that, you'll be ready to strike.

This is the only way I really see making any progress against a creationist...
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice. I can see your point and will keep it focused on a one item.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
Aught3 said:
Wow the colour scheme is too painful to read, why don't you post the pertinent bits here.
Click to expand...


You are not familiar with the old style CRT dumb terminals that had their font in green.
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
I have sent an email to David Kirk regarding his quote in the article by Kyle Butts. After looking at his biography

http://wubio.wustl.edu/kirk

He is quite the biologist. The Biology Today book that he edited and worked on had a bit of a controversial history because the first edition had a painting of Noah's Ark and also a contraceptive diagram. He removed all of that when he became editor / author.

I have ordered a copy of the second edition that the quote is taken from. I found a used copy on Barnes and Noble.

I have not been able to find a copy of Biological Science issue that George Wald wrote in. Also he has since then passed away so i can not get further direct information from him.

I am trying to contact the NSCE later today for help with some of this.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
I got a reply from David Kirk.

I am going to have to edit my article later today to include his email.

I think it is so cool that he replied to my email on the matter.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
I called the NSCE today and spoke to Steve Newton.

He has sent me an email with some links to Talk Orgins regrading the quote mining on George Wald and W.R. Thompson.

After I make dinner I will update the article.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

PS. I sent Phil Plait an email because Kyle is using discoverymagazine.com as a creationist site. That was close enough to his that I thought he might like to know how Kyle is trying to mislead off his very similar URL.
 
arg-fallbackName="Understudy"/>
http://www.understudy.net/archives/00000182.html

I have made the updates.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
 
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