• Welcome to League Of Reason Forums! Please read the rules before posting.
    If you are willing and able please consider making a donation to help with site overheads.
    Donations can be made via here

Chat with Aron Ra

Status
Not open for further replies.
arg-fallbackName="AngelaMOU"/>
OH !! So you are actually a LADY ??!!!!!

Can I guess ?? Is that you?

View attachment 157
You must be really annoyed by me. While I'm rather chilled. :D

The 2 last replied I had with you over there (not here) was your weird "God is simple" thing there it was:

You "God is a remarkably simple entity."

_Entity_ is not really a precise term there, but buzzword or slogan. OF COURSE phrases like "God" are flat and simple. It is a similar term like "TASTY!" - an emotional expression if you like some food. Just in your case if you see some complex thing you say "God" instead of "TASTY!"

You "As a non-physical entity,"
Slogans are physical as neuronal clusters - with brain insuries, amnesia or dementia such slogans can be forgotten...like names and events, too.

You " a mind is not composed of parts,"

Strange that different drugs and narcotics are capable to distort all known minds by observation.

You "and its salient properties, like self-consciousness,"

Self-consiciousness is a feeling of time duration (linked before but ignored) - that is why differents stages are experienced in being awake states, dream states incl. lucid dreaming as becoming selfaware in a dream.

You "rationality, and volition, are essential to it."

Chains of thoughts/thinking processes are brain processes. Willpower is realization by having chains of thoughts about situations and problems in the already existing universe. There are no thinking processes nor is there any willpower about anything without a timespace continuum for the same reason that there is no proper atmosphere to sing a song on the moon.

You " In contrast to the contingent and variegated universe with all its inexplicable quantities and constants, a divine mind is startlingly simple."

Because the term _divinity_ shall be re-defined as simplistic, because the defense does not work otherwise, as we see with the sophistry (inconsistent one you propose here).

You "Certainly such a mind may have complex ideas—it may be thinking,"

The term mind is defined by its traits/characteristics... like the active performance of processes like thinking aka several sequences of one thought after another - it is not a thing for itself detached from its own traits.

You " but the mind itself is a remarkably simple entity"

Slogan/buzzword is the term you search for, not "entity". ;-)
Indeed a term like "God" remains a remarkably simple (and meaningless) phrase.

AND
For your other weird claim that cells (modern ones not the first cell) would be built as factories.

My reply was in the context of your answering me with a video adressing replication of already established cell T-DNA. This was also again with the
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6360/
publication you ignored.

Where you just went on and on with more and more off-topic stuff (backpaddling and goal moving).

The original topic you tried to bury under more and more new ones was cells as they are today - to be fabricated and not born/mitosis results.
Then you switched to abiogenesis topics(LUCA) not cells in general - Because you wanted to suggest it is:
molecules swirling around - just 1 step - LUCA. (but jumped away from this strawman as it got too hot there)

THEN copy and pasted more stuff which was either about condition restrictions or that you want a specific pathway to have only 1 specific result but no other variations and a lot more topics from
You Quote: "https://******************************/t1279p75-abiogenesis-is-mathematically-impossible#7309"

Your whole doing of jumping from topic to topic was performing poetry in disguise. Poetry "appearing as scientific" or as a discussion between 2 people (me and you) as only 1 topic.
(While it was alone 4+ topics or so)

Like someone would "talk" together with another person about reflection, refraction and dispersion of light in water droplets appearing as rainbows and you would just copy and paste scientific problems with light bending effects (ignoring all known solutions), while claiming the "Pot of Gold" at the end of the rainbow is still never touched by any publication about rainbows.
While "the Pot of Gold" is and remains a detached myth the defender artifically "poetizes" onto the topic as a foreign body.
The Pot of the Gaps

You do the same with cell machinery/proteins and the God of the gaps.
That is why in the youtube debate Dapper Dino asked you several times why you demand omniscience from other human beings/scientists and you did not really wanted to get to it - (fully on purpose)
By not demanding omniscience from scientists would basically be an admission by your side about your own dogmatic bias to push your weird poetry like a parasite on any given publication and opportunity you see.

Like you also reply to all comments with off-topic and topic overjumping copy&pasting your monologues, too.
They stil remain poems in a confusing only in disguise as "On-topic meaningful or insightful replies".
You should think about changing your career and be open as a modern art poet rather than a "debater", "missionary" or whatever you see yourself.
 
Last edited:
arg-fallbackName="AngelaMOU"/>
We need volunteers that can help with NodeJS, D3 hierarchy/tree, the database engineer needs help (PostGreSQL), writers that can help out (for articles, youtube etc etc), but even a monetary donation would be welcome. For people that want to help here is what we are looking for https://phylogenyexplorerproject.org/volunteers/information/ you can apply on website.
Ah thanks. I would not consider my english good enough to write any proper articles. I will nevertheless link it to some acquaintances, some also familiar with coding etc.
 
arg-fallbackName="rationalist"/>
This proves that SD was right, that Otangelo is just a dickhead liar who doesn't believe his own bullshit.
I believe what I proclaim. Since there is being, being has always been. Beginning requires a beginner. Contingent beings depend on a necessary cause. Creation requires a creator. Design requires a designer. Laws require a lawmaker. Mathematics requires a mathematician. Fine-tuning requires a fine-tuner, Codes require a coder. Information requires an Informer. Translation requires a translator. Life has only been observed to come from life. Logic comes from logic, Consciousness comes from consciousness, machines require a machine-maker. Factories require a factory-maker. Objective moral values come from a moral giver. The "God of the gaps" argument is invalid. And so, that there is no evidence for God(s).

And I am secure about what I believe. You, on the other hand, seem not to be secure enough to face me on MDD.
 
arg-fallbackName="We are Borg"/>
I think i found someone (rationalist) that knows even less then Ken Hovind and that is saying something.

Why would Aron debate/discuss you on MDD he has no reason to do so, plus the way you act here i would not even talk to you. You can only copy paste and speak with words of others.
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
The "God of the gaps" argument is invalid. And so, that there is no evidence for God(s).

God of the gaps isn't an argument therefore can't be invalid. Again you don't know what you're talking about. God of the gaps is a form of fallacious or problematic reasoning. "I don't know what did that so it must have been this thing that did that thing" - <----- fallacious, NOT invalid. Validity isn't a component that applies to this, validity refers to the STRUCTURE OF AN ARGUMENT - ex -

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

^^^ VALID ARGUMENT

"
I dunno therefore I know cos reasons" - <--- Neither an argument nor an invalid one.
 
arg-fallbackName="rationalist"/>
God of the gaps isn't an argument therefore can't be invalid. Again you don't know what you're talking about. God of the gaps is a form of fallacious or problematic reasoning. "I don't know what did that so it must have been this thing that did that thing" - <----- fallacious, NOT invalid. Validity isn't a component that applies to this, validity refers to the STRUCTURE OF AN ARGUMENT - ex -

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

^^^ VALID ARGUMENT

"
I dunno therefore I know cos reasons" - <--- Neither an argument nor an invalid one.
I grant your point. God of the gaps is an invalid refutation of arguments for the existence of God. There are MANY cases where a God is inferred based on positive evidence.

The obviousness of Creation is hidden from those who reject God. There is no evidence that we can exist without a creator.
Since there is being, being has always been. Beginning requires a beginner. Contingent beings depend on a necessary cause. Creation requires a creator. Design requires a designer. Laws require a lawmaker. Mathematics requires a mathematician. Fine-tuning requires a fine-tuner, Codes require a coder. Information requires an Informer. Translation requires a translator. Life has only been observed to come from life. Logic comes from logic, Consciousness comes from consciousness, machines require a machine-maker. Factories require a factory-maker. Objective moral values come from a moral giver. The "God of the gaps" is an invalid refutation of arguments for the existence of God. And so, that there is no evidence for God(s).
 
arg-fallbackName="rationalist"/>
God of the gaps isn't an argument therefore can't be invalid. Again you don't know what you're talking about. God of the gaps is a form of fallacious or problematic reasoning. "I don't know what did that so it must have been this thing that did that thing" - <----- fallacious, NOT invalid. Validity isn't a component that applies to this, validity refers to the STRUCTURE OF AN ARGUMENT - ex -

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

^^^ VALID ARGUMENT

"
I dunno therefore I know cos reasons" - <--- Neither an argument nor an invalid one.
Aron Ra refutes to have a public debate on a platform like MDD because he knows he will acquire too many intellectual blackflies to scratch afterward, that he can handle...
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
Aron Ra refutes to have a public debate on a platform like MDD because he knows he will acquire too many intellectual blackflies to scratch afterward, that he can handle...

Nope, now you're just lying and anyone reading this thread can very easily discern that. He's already explained, in this thread why he won't appear on MDD again. Please stop lying, it's neither productive nor entertaining.
 
arg-fallbackName="Nesslig20"/>
Aron Ra refutes to have a public debate on a platform like MDD because he knows he will acquire too many intellectual blackflies to scratch afterward, that he can handle...
Such ideas related to the sentiment "not wanting to debate means they know they can't win" or the all time favorite "debate me or you're chicken" is so painfully childish, and as SD pointed out is completely unproductive. Especially when you're just ignoring the reasons given why the other person declines the debate. It is blatant intellectually dishonesty. Nothing more.
 
Last edited:
arg-fallbackName="We are Borg"/>
God of the gaps isn't an argument therefore can't be invalid. Again you don't know what you're talking about. God of the gaps is a form of fallacious or problematic reasoning. "I don't know what did that so it must have been this thing that did that thing" - <----- fallacious, NOT invalid. Validity isn't a component that applies to this, validity refers to the STRUCTURE OF AN ARGUMENT - ex -

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

^^^ VALID ARGUMENT

"
I dunno therefore I know cos reasons" - <--- Neither an argument nor an invalid one.

Then what would this be:

I always lie, do you believe me.

Or is this a paradox.
 
arg-fallbackName="AronRa"/>
Aron Ra refutes to have a public debate on a platform like MDD because he knows he will acquire too many intellectual blackflies to scratch afterward, that he can handle...
I have already explained to Otangeo why this discussion would not work in a live discussion debate and should be done in writing. Yet Otangelo has refused to debate ME. Because he knows he cannot properly address the points and queries I put to him here, and had to make up bullshit excuses trying to cover his failure to take on the Phylogeny Challenge after he agreed that he could and would answer it. Otangelo is therefore just a liar and is thus unworthy of attention in any format.
 
arg-fallbackName="rationalist"/>
Now live on my channel, The God talk:


Aron, I said that I have no disagreement that horses, donkeys, etc have a common ancestor. What we disagree with, is that prokaryotes can have evolved to become eukaryotes. I gave many reasons, and also cited scientific papers that reject that hypothesis. If you disagree, show your evidence and work.
 
Last edited:
arg-fallbackName="Nesslig20"/>
Aron, I said that I have no disagreement that horses, donkeys, etc have a common ancestor. What we disagree with, is that prokaryotes can have evolved to become eukaryotes. I gave many reasons, and also cited scientific papers that reject that hypothesis. If you disagree, show your evidence and work.
That's still not an answer to the phylogeny challenge. What you need to do is to look at the phylogeny of organisms according the scientists (whether you agree with it or not) and pin point the exact place where "relatedness" breaks down, where does the phylogeny come at an end. You say you accept Equines (donkeys, horses and zebras)....ok....what about the extinct relatives or horses like Brontotheriidae or the closest living relatives, the tapirs and rhinos and all their extinct relatives? Are all Perissodactyls related? If tapirs, rhinos and equines are all separate, not related, then why do their earliest fossil representatives of each group look SO much alike, only distinguishable by their teeth? If they are related...move on the the next closest putative related group, and repeat until you answer with a NO...then your job is to explain how you came to that conclusion. Why did "relatedness" stop HERE and not further down the phylogeny or further up?
 
arg-fallbackName="rationalist"/>
That's still not an answer to the phylogeny challenge. What you need to do is to look at the phylogeny of organisms according the scientists (whether you agree with it or not) and pin point the exact place where "relatedness" breaks down, where does the phylogeny come at an end. You say you accept Equines (donkeys, horses and zebras)....ok....what about the extinct relatives or horses like Brontotheriidae or the closest living relatives, the tapirs and rhinos and all their extinct relatives? Are all Perissodactyls related? If tapirs, rhinos and equines are all separate, not related, then why do their earliest fossil representatives of each group look SO much alike, only distinguishable by their teeth? If they are related...move on the the next closest putative related group, and repeat until you answer with a NO...then your job is to explain how you came to that conclusion. Why did "relatedness" stop HERE and not further down the phylogeny or further up?
What you need to do is to look at the phylogeny of organisms according the scientists (whether you agree with it or not) and pin point the exact place where "relatedness" breaks down, where does the phylogeny come at an end. //// eukaryotes are not related to prokaryotes. Let's start right at the root of the tree. Prove me wrong. Then explain annelids. Then, keep going, next one: Xiaocaris luoi. Then explain Kimberella. Then Dickinsonia. Then what about Namapoikia. N. rietoogensis.
 
arg-fallbackName="AronRa"/>
Aron, I said that I have no disagreement that horses, donkeys, etc have a common ancestor. What we disagree with, is that prokaryotes can have evolved to become eukaryotes. I gave many reasons, and also cited scientific papers that reject that hypothesis. If you disagree, show your evidence and work.
Once again, you don't want to know what we know about evolution. You don't want to know that we know anything about evolution. So all you can do is reach back as far as possible, to the darkest places where you can pretend that we don't know anything. So that you can then pretend that whatever you think science can't explain is somehow evidence for God. You're still wrong about that, and you're still ignoring the Phylogeny Challenge.

As I told you before, if evolution from common ancestry is not true and some flavor of special creation of as-yet unidentified kinds is true, then there would be some surface levels in a cladogram where you would accept an actual evolutionary ancestry, but there must also be subsequent levels in that twin-nested hierarchy where life-forms would no longer be the same kind and wouldn’t be biologically related anymore. At that point, they would be magically created separate kinds, and distinctly unique from those listed around it as well as those apparently ancestral to it. So we start with the most recent species relationships and move on down the tree from there. I already told you, we're not looking for a last universal common ancestor for Prokaryotes and Eukaryotes anyway.

Those who promote creationism’s bewildering inanity should be able to show exactly where and why uniquely created kinds could not be grouped together with any parent clades that would otherwise only imply an evolutionary ancestry. That is the Phylogeny Challenge. If creationism is true of anything more than a single ancestor of all animal forms (if not the entire eukaryote collective), or if the concept of common ancestry is fundamentally mistaken, then there must be a point in the tree where taxonomy falls apart—where what we thought was related to everything is really unrelated to anything else. So where is that mystical division within the animal kingdom?
 
arg-fallbackName="We are Borg"/>
@AronRa do you have YouTube videos why the Phylogeny Challenge cant be done, if not would be awesome to have the full explanation. I know the moment you need to point to kinds you fail harder then hard, but is this the only downfall in the challenge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top