Can you see that we evolved from primates?

[ranchodeluxe]

also if some time in the distant future the christians, muslims or any other monotheist group ever gains real political power on a global scale they will most likely make sure that every shred of scientific knowledge is destroyed, especially were it concerns information about mans true origins. it will be them who make sure the knowledge and information is never passed on.

 

[australopithecus]

Im saving my replies. I'm currently watching Prof Brain Cox make physics his bitch. Live. /smug

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

Yep,

Some languages die and some species go extinct.

But the language probably has a 'root' language of some sort and we could probably track that back to a common language that 'split' and broke into many other languages. Some languages will still carry 'characteristics' of the previous language and develop new and interesting words.....


"CLASSIC"

 

[televator]

Im saving my replies. I'm currently watching Prof Brain Cox make physics his bitch. Live. /smug

Get him to sign your Fez and tell him we all say "Hi".

 

[australopithecus]

I apologise for the forced segway, I just wanted to show off.

also if some time in the distant future the christians, muslims or any other monotheist group ever gains real political power on a global scale they will most likely make sure that every shred of scientific knowledge is destroyed, especially were it concerns information about mans true origins. it will be them who make sure the knowledge and information is never passed on.

Well, ignoring that not all religious folk are anti-science/knowledge, your dystopian Orwellian theocratic nightmare world isn't exactly likely to happen is it? Your arguments seem to hinge on a lot of idle speculation about things that might happen at some point somewhere.

 

[Laurens]

also if some time in the distant future the christians, muslims or any other monotheist group ever gains real political power on a global scale they will most likely make sure that every shred of scientific knowledge is destroyed, especially were it concerns information about mans true origins. it will be them who make sure the knowledge and information is never passed on.

There was a time when it was possible to keep people ignorant. When you could be killed for translating the Bible and so on, but that isn't likely to happen in this day and age. Information is too readily accessible, and too hard to destroy completely. I doubt a scenario in which one religion gains enough power to destroy all scientific knowledge would arise. Also evolution/science deniers are in the minority (among Christians at least).

 

[ranchodeluxe]

I apologise for the forced segway, I just wanted to show off.

also if some time in the distant future the christians, muslims or any other monotheist group ever gains real political power on a global scale they will most likely make sure that every shred of scientific knowledge is destroyed, especially were it concerns information about mans true origins. it will be them who make sure the knowledge and information is never passed on.

Well, ignoring that not all religious folk are anti-science/knowledge, your dystopian Orwellian theocratic nightmare world isn't exactly likely to happen is it? Your arguments seem to hinge on a lot of idle speculation about things that might happen at some point somewhere.

its always fun to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
this is a plausible scenario. im just analyzing possible future events by considering alternative possible outcomes. im not presenting an exact picture of the future. Instead, i present several alternative future developments. Consequently, a scope of possible future outcomes is observable. Not only are the outcomes observable, also the development paths leading to the outcomes. In contrast to prognoses, im using extrapolations of the past. i rely on historical data and do not expect past observations to be still valid in the future. Instead, i try to consider possible developments and turning points, which may only be connected to the past.
i occasionally will consider various outcomes and their implications to illuminate "wild cards." For example, analysis of the possibility of the earth being struck by a large celestial object (a meteor) suggests that whilst the probability is low, the damage inflicted is so high that the event is much more important (threatening) than the low probability (in any one year) alone would suggest. However, this possibility is usually disregarded by organizations using scenario analysis to develop a strategic plan since it has such overarching repercussions.

 

[jenne]

[

This should perhaps be in a sub-forum on evolution, but I want to bring it to the awareness of believers in religion.

We have the interesting idea (fact) that we evolved from primates, and yet we do not really know it as we know that the sun rises, or that organisms grow, etc. We believe evolution is true, but this is not the same as really knowing.
Think how amazing it would be to be able to actually watch evolution unfolding over millions of years. Imagine having it all on video, and being able to speed it up. If you could do this, you would really know it.
I have noticed that it is in a way possible to see that we evolved from primates. There are many people who are really not so different from each other. It is almost possible to predict what they are going to say. I find this easier to notice in simple-minded people. I have not perceived it easily in well-educated, clever people.
We do not see each other in this light. It is difficult to express - we think 'He is John', 'She is Sarah', we see individuals. When you see someone in the way I have just been describing, I think you see more sharply.

If we could really know, in the strongest sense of the word, the truth of evolution, would it change the way we see ourselves, would it benefit us? The first thing that came to mind to me on this, was the problem of overpopulation. Believers in Christianity, Islam and Judaism do not like the idea that population growth should be checked (I do not know this from experience, but I think it must be true), but is it realistic to think that it does not matter if the human race keeps getting larger? From what I know of monotheistic religion, I would say that the most obvious reason believers do not like it is because they believe that we are all created by god, we are 'children of God'.
I have more to say on this subject, but I will post this now.

First, welcome to the forums.

Second, what's your source? Why do you believe your source to be true? Who is the author? What result do you hope to achieve by asking this question?

Thanks.
First of all, I should have said 'Can you see that we are evolved primates?'.

My source is literature by Darwin, George C Williams and Richard Dawkins.
I believe it to be true because their field of expertise was/is evolutionary biology. I have neither the time nor enough interest to study it in-depth. My source is also internet forums like this one, television programmes, and videos on the internet.
I think it is reasonable to accept what the above mentioned say, especially as the theory of evolution is now accepted, and the idea of creationism has been shown to be flawed. I was a church-going Christian in the past, so I was familiar with the Bible, which I now think is full of nonsense.

As for what I hope to achieve, there is a reply by someone on the first or second page of this thread (I cannot find it) saying that knowledge of evolution should make us more tolerant towards each other. In one of his books, Dawkins says that, when you go back through our evolution (I think that was it), you find there is not really much difference between the different races. This has implications for racism.
After reading through all the replies, I think I was mistaken to think that knowledge of evolution would greatly benefit us. I think (or hope) it would shatter religion, which would mean that all the ridiculous fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, and between Shia and Sunni Muslims in Iraq would end, as they would be forced to admit how foolish they are. But I already anticipate replies from members asking why it should end this, which is fair enough.
I agree with Buddhism which teaches that the cause of suffering is desire. Obviously desire would not end just because we could all know, in the deepest sense of the word, that we are evolved primates.

I also would hope that it would make our view of the world less human-centered. Believers in a god seem to think that everything revolves around us. When I have contemplated the earth in space, or the solar system moving through the galaxy, or deep time, I find that I see things from a different perspective, a larger one.
I have more to say on this, but will have to do it later.

 

[Inferno]

As for what I hope to achieve, there is a reply by someone on the first or second page of this thread (I cannot find it) saying that knowledge of evolution should make us more tolerant towards each other. In one of his books, Dawkins says that, when you go back through our evolution (I think that was it), you find there is not really much difference between the different races. This has implications for racism.

Do you perchance mean this one?

We already know, according to your definition. Would it change anything? Yes, I expect humans to be much more tolerant of others if they understand Evolution. I expect that there will be absolutely no more racism, homophobia and sexism, all of which are IMO impossible if you understand Evolution properly.

After reading through all the replies, I think I was mistaken to think that knowledge of evolution would greatly benefit us.

Wait, what? Didn't we say the exact opposite, that it WOULD benefit us?

I also would hope that it would make our view of the world less human-centered. Believers in a god seem to think that everything revolves around us. When I have contemplated the earth in space, or the solar system moving through the galaxy, or deep time, I find that I see things from a different perspective, a larger one.

I agree.
A look at the Universe showed us that it doesn't revolve around us, a look at all the plants and animals shows that we are not the crown of creation.

 

[Laurens]

I also would hope that it would make our view of the world less human-centered. Believers in a god seem to think that everything revolves around us. When I have contemplated the earth in space, or the solar system moving through the galaxy, or deep time, I find that I see things from a different perspective, a larger one.

This picture helps:

 

[MillionSword]

I think (or hope) it would shatter religion, which would mean that all the ridiculous fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, and between Shia and Sunni Muslims in Iraq would end

The fighting in Northern Ireland is all about politics rather than religion. Even if it was about religion, the absence of it wouldn't stop the fighting. If you have groups of people who are different in some way/rival each other then there will always be friction.

 

[jenne]

Yes I did mean your quote Inferno, but I could not quote it as I cannot work out how to see the previous pages of the thread when I am posting a reply. You are welcome to enlighten me; it is baffling.
You said that you would expect greater tolerance, and no racism if people understood evolution properly. This is what I meant about 'knowing' it, in the deepest sense of the word. Early in the thread, someone said that we already know it is true. For myself, I can say that I would know it far better if I was able to watch it unfold over millions of years, rather than just subscribing to it because of what Darwin and the other main exponents say. I wonder if it would blow me away.
But I am not scientific, and maybe scientific people know it better than I realise.

 

[kenandkids]

Yes I did mean your quote Inferno, but I could not quote it as I cannot work out how to see the previous pages of the thread when I am posting a reply. You are welcome to enlighten me; it is baffling.
You said that you would expect greater tolerance, and no racism if people understood evolution properly. This is what I meant about 'knowing' it, in the deepest sense of the word. Early in the thread, someone said that we already know it is true. For myself, I can say that I would know it far better if I was able to watch it unfold over millions of years, rather than just subscribing to it because of what Darwin and the other main exponents say. I wonder if it would blow me away.
But I am not scientific, and maybe scientific people know it better than I realise.

While geology is my field, I can say that when I look at a creature (or batholith) I am looking for markers and indications of what was as well as what is. Essentially I allow my mind to reconstruct past existence from what I see. In a sense, yes scientists are able to watch it unfold, fold, and then unfold again.

 

[Inferno]

Yes I did mean your quote Inferno, but I could not quote it as I cannot work out how to see the previous pages of the thread when I am posting a reply. You are welcome to enlighten me; it is baffling.

Just open a second tab, it's the only way that I know of. You go back in the thread, you copy the message you want to quote, you click on "quote" in your reply, you Ctrl+V the message into the quote brackets and you enter

without the *.

Early in the thread, someone said that we already know it is true. For myself, I can say that I would know it far better if I was able to watch it unfold over millions of years, rather than just subscribing to it because of what Darwin and the other main exponents say. I wonder if it would blow me away.
But I am not scientific, and maybe scientific people know it better than I realise.

I take it you're once again referring to my comment when I said "We already know, according to your definition."
I don't claim to be an expert in Biology but I'm going to start my Bachelors next year and I've already filled in for a colleague (teacher) due to a lack of teachers in my country. However, I do feel qualified enough to say that "we know". We know for a fact that evolution does occur (observed instances of speciation), that all life is related (DNA evidence), that there are varying degrees of relatedness (again DNA), that we are by definition both primates and apes, that we are most closely related to other great apes (both fossil and DNA evidence) and many other things, all of which point to Evolution and only to Evolution.
I think it safe to recall what greater people than I have said: "Evolution is the best substantiated theory around today. We know that it happens just as we know that the sun will "rise".

 

[RigelKentaurusA]

This picture helps:

Oh yes, indeed.

"See this picture? Imagine you're a quadrillionth the size of one of the quarks in the atoms that make up the little lights in your monitor that comprise a pixel in this image."

 

[Welshidiot]

I think (or hope) it would shatter religion, which would mean that all the ridiculous fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, and between Shia and Sunni Muslims in Iraq would end

The fighting in Northern Ireland is all about politics rather than religion. Even if it was about religion, the absence of it wouldn't stop the fighting. If you have groups of people who are different in some way/rival each other then there will always be friction.

 

[Laurens]

Indeed, it is the 'us and them' mentality that is dangerous, not the specific us' and them's that people adhere to.

 

[borrofburi]

Yes I did mean your quote Inferno, but I could not quote it as I cannot work out how to see the previous pages of the thread when I am posting a reply. You are welcome to enlighten me; it is baffling.

Just open a second tab, it's the only way that I know of. You go back in the thread, you copy the message you want to quote, you click on "quote" in your reply, you Ctrl+V the message into the quote brackets and you enter

without the *.

My response: http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk//viewtopic.php?p=112949#p112949

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

Can't be human without being a primate.

Now, I understand that that is true, and kinda how it is true, but I can't seem to form a clear sentence explaining it. Would anyone knowledgeable concerning this subject be willing to explain this in actual precise terms, please?

 

[Laurens]

Can't be human without being a primate.

Now, I understand that that is true, and kinda how it is true, but I can't seem to form a clear sentence explaining it. Would anyone knowledgeable concerning this subject be willing to explain this in actual precise terms, please?

Primates are defined by the characteristics that they share:

They are distinguished by having hands, handlike feet, and forward-facing eyes, and, with the exception of humans, are typically agile tree-dwellers

[From the dictionary on google]

I guess we are primates because out of all the orders on animals we share the most in common with that group (save from the tree-dwelling).

Then again I'm no expert