Bullying.

[Andiferous]

I pondered about where to put this. In the end, I liked the idea of bullying as philosophy and went for it. Quite frankly, how does one stop bullying?

I've got a daughter in about grade three who has had problems with bullies for a few years. She likes to play sports with boys and the girls often brush her off. The boys are often of an age where they want her for the numbers or reject her, and it has accumulated in all kinds of physical abuse.

We're waiting on a school transfer. What do you do about this stuff? What would a person do if doing this all over again?

 

[BrainBlow]

Depends on the bullying. Physical bullies need a punch to the face or two. In difference from what most teachers like to believe, retaliating physically against those bullying physically works.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

It is a good question but unfortunatly one I don't have an answer to. The situation comes from the relation that your daughter has with her peers, there is nothing you can teacher her that would help her be more sociable, "cool" or be more prone to be acepted and respected. If the other kids decide to bully them, what exactly can you do to change their minds? They are kids. Perhaps a tighter monitor from the part of the school personel is able to breakup fights before they get serious preventing her from getting bruised from school, but who are we kidding? They don't give a fuck about anyones kid, their responsability is to keep the school running and they will not hire someone just for you to keep an eye on her.

Hoewever not all is lost, I don't know how it works in your country and in your school, but there are this things you can participate in called parent associations, with the right pressure you can demand that either the parents of the trouble makers have a stiffer actitude to their kids educations or have them expelled. It can provide other solutions, but as of now I haven't got an idea of something that works in an apropriate fashion.

Perhaps karate lessons would help as well.

 

[Welshidiot]

Depends on the bullying. Physical bullies need a punch to the face or two. In difference from what most teachers like to believe, retaliating physically against those bullying physically works.

Except when it doesn't,.....speaking from experience.

 

[BrainBlow]

Depends on the bullying. Physical bullies need a punch to the face or two. In difference from what most teachers like to believe, retaliating physically against those bullying physically works.

Except when it doesn't,.....speaking from experience.

Then again, it depends on the bully. If you're being ganged up on by a whole bunch of people, it is a tad more serious.
Or if you're very very tiny, and the bully very very big(age gap).

 

[Andiferous]

In my particular situation as stated, it may have only been a threesome or foursome who physically abused her last year. But despite talks with the teachers and principle, (which happily ended the immediate problem last year), the signs seem to have it that it's about to begin again this year. As a mother, frankly, I don't like seeing my daughter crying on the way home from school almost every day.

I know everyone has had their own issues, and that many people blow their experiences out of proportion (I do not think this is the case here). I had my own problems growing up (and really - these problems drove me to be a bit of a bully myself for a time). I really wish I understood kids, more. I'm not sure I could improve my school experience, even given what I understand, now

And Internet bullying scares me even more than the old-fashioned stuff.

Yes, maybe having fingers in the parental council pudding may help.

 

[Unwardil]

Physical bullying is tough to deal with, but the surest fire way is to retaliate in kind. Bullies don't like getting hit back. They like to wail on people who can't fight back. The best way to deal with them is to hurt them at a time when they aren't expecting it. Bring the fight on your own terms. Something like, oh I don't know, 'accidentally' elbowing them as hard as you can in the face during class and breaking their nose. You know, just as a theoretical possibility here. Don't retaliate, initiate. Bullies know how and when they can be safe. They have cronies to act as look outs and you can't fight back against 4 people, but you can ambush 1 and if that 1 is the leader, you knock out the other 3 in one go.

You can't be afraid to get in trouble either because the bullies aren't afraid of getting in trouble and you can't be afraid that they'll retaliate. What are they really going to do that's worse then what they're already doing? It's a shit sandwich you just have to eat. Make them eat it with you and they stop because nobody likes a shit sandwich.

 

[Andiferous]

I know what you're saying, I would have done it myself, having experienced being a bully myself for some time in response to what was perceived as bullying; however, doesn't making oneself a bully in response to bullies just exacerbate the problem by creating more bullies?

In retrospect I don't think my situation was really that bad, but I began school as overly passive and consolidating but over time felt forced into aggression. There must be a different solution? I didn't have a problem in the latter school years because I made a conscious effort to stop communicating with my peers, but this doesn't seem ideal to me. Even a last blitz of the superficial hollow of high school gained some protection but ultimately, would not have helped any character-building in the long run. From my own experience.

I'd just really like to protect her from all this.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

May I remind you that we are talking about a girl in third grade, even if it was effective teaching the bullys a lesson by having their shit kicked out of them, it is still a completly diferent game seeing that being put to practice since the girl doesn't know how to fight to be able to stand on her own, and neither is she likely to in the future. You are adults now and you should have a greater forseight than that.

 

[Case]

I'll try to be brief.

1) Immediate response - martial arts classes. Some girls feel they are 'just not made' for that, but it is just so helpful if the class is given correctly. Not only can these lessons teach girls how to defend themselves (to a certain degree), they can be character-building in a sense that the children gain self-confidence. A pushover will stay a pushover and will invite bullying (after all, bullies don't go after the strong kids), but a child who radiates determination is likely to deter idiots. A measured kick to the tender parts might not even be necessary, even a strong vocal message (scream) can be helpful.

2) Protective crowd. Friends. It's a numbers game. Bullies won't approach larger groups of pupils. They'll get their asses kicked. This is, of course, not easy to establish out of the blue.

3) Parents. Talk to the bullies' parents. Those are probably the people the bullies fear most. And they are unlikely to be happy when they hear about their children bullying others. In fact, bullies are often people who get a lot of shit at home, unsurprisingly.

4) Jurisdiction. Children don't have to "put up" with abuse, no matter who is exerting it. If my child was being bullied, I'd make life more miserable for the little fucks than it may already be. If a complaint to the teachers/principal doesn't suffice, hold THEM accountable, because for the duration of the schoolday, including walks to and from school, by the way, THEY are responsible for what happens to your child.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Karate class is good for another reason, which is that the right class gives the kid peers who she can make strong friendships with, some of which are away from the school setting. Having a bunch of friends is the best defense against bullying, physically and emotionally. Plus, being good at things and having that self-confidence tends to drive off most bullies anyway.

Or a gun. One or the other.

 

[ohcac]

I have expressed my opinion (a little more strongly elsewhere) that I think that public schools provide a socially poisonous environment for a vast quantity of children.

I think that it is tragic that we have a system in which some children are forced to scramble for difficult-to-execute solutions so that their life isn't made hell every single day by their peers.

Perhaps we need to rethink the merits of hoarding children together in a single building, in a compulsory manner, for the stated purposes of "efficiency" and "producing a rational, critically thinking population"? :|

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I have expressed my opinion (a little more strongly elsewhere) that I think that public schools provide a socially poisonous environment for a vast quantity of children.

I think that it is tragic that we have a system in which some children are forced to scramble for difficult-to-execute solutions so that their life isn't made hell every single day by their peers.

Perhaps we need to rethink the merits of hoarding children together in a single building, in a compulsory manner, for the stated purposes of "efficiency" and "producing a rational, critically thinking population"? :|

What do you mean?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

What do you mean?

Children should be educated by wolves.

 

[Prolescum]

What do you mean?

Children should be educated by osmosis.

 

[Welshidiot]

What do you mean?

Children should be reprogrammed, using leftover Shadow-tech.

 

[devilsadvocate]

I think it was two things that got rid of people bullying me. One crucial step was that I just decided not to care about their insults. When they yelled something like "[my name] is gay!" (and that really was the extend how sophisticated our 7th grade insults on the best days got) I just glanced at the yeller long enough for him to know I heard him and then resumed my interrupted conversation. When I started feeling more comfortable with this, I started adding a little chuckle.

On reflection I think there was some behaviour-cognitive psychotherapy going on on my part. When I started acting like their insults and opinions meant nothing to me (and to be honest I never cared for their opinions anyways. My concern always was would my friends have less respect for me because this insulting was something that I couldn't stop) the less it started to register at all. It is certainly very elementary psychology that any insult you could hope to throw at someone to gain power over him instantly loses all goals to that end if the receiver considers it at best as a minor distraction, and at worse plainly amusing.

This is all of course just reflection on my part and my 13-year-old brain only had a fleeting glimpse of the questionable clarity I have over psychological concepts now. The reason I started using this approach to insults was mimicking life long friend and a girl who happened to be very popular but nevertheless a victim of many cruel gossips. The way she handled them was superb. On on-going gossip was that she regularly filled her bra with paper. Because of this I often called her jokingly, and on moodier days with dripping hostility, finnish equivalent of "paper cups". All she ever did was laugh on it and it always completely disarmed any insult that any hostile could have ever meant.

The other thing I did was confront bullies if the harassment ever went past slinging insults. The moment it was physical or another thing I couldn't just shrug off I engaged in "arm wrestle". I don't know how to describe it, but it was the most serious type of "fight" we 7th graders usually engaged in and it always gathered a crowd. That was when I noticed that none of the bullies really wanted to fight. They are just like everyone. The less you question their authority the more comfortable they are to step over their comfort zone to try you. Establish clear boundaries with them with consistent punishment against violating them, and like with dogs they'll end up respecting them. It isn't that they couldn't punish you more than you can them, but just the overall promise that there will be confrontation. I think most high school bullies are actually quite scared of that, even though they'd have good reason to think they'll come out on top. It also happens to be the definition of cowardice.

 

[ohcac]

Children should be educated by wolves.

Children should be educated by osmosis.

Children should be reprogrammed, using leftover Shadow-tech.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Why the sarcastic responses to my post? I merely suggested that school should not be compulsory *especially* in cases where kids have a shitty time every fucking waking hour of their life because of it.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Why the sarcastic responses to my post? I merely suggested that school should not be compulsory *especially* in cases where kids have a shitty time every fucking waking hour of their life because of it.

If schools are not compulsory how do you espect the general population from getting a decent education, people are generaly are already dumb and make very poor decisions as it is, not having a standard of education will never help on that aspect. How do you justify in your mind that droping school is the apropriate response for bullying?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Why the sarcastic responses to my post? I merely suggested that school should not be compulsory *especially* in cases where kids have a shitty time every fucking waking hour of their life because of it.

If schools are not compulsory how do you espect the general population from getting a decent education, people are generaly are already dumb and make very poor decisions as it is, not having a standard of education will never help on that aspect. How do you justify in your mind that droping school is the apropriate response for bullying?

I think it is more about ohcac having a "solution in search of a problem."