Biggest problem with athiesm

[Vanlavak]

Atheism lacks spirituality, therefore, it needs spirituality.

EDIT: I found a video of the part I was talking about


Now, how is the problem is how is the goal of life going to be replaced in most religious people who work towards a life in an afterlife.

What is your answer to this problem?

 

[Memeticemetic]

Atheism lacks spirituality, therefore, it needs spirituality.

That may be the worst syllogism ever written. Define 'spirituality'.

Try watching your video again, moving on from the 6:52 mark. "In music, one doesn't make the end of the composition the point of the composition." If your finite life is being lived merely to jockey for position in the infinite life that supposedly follows, then this life; the one you can be sure actually exists, is meaningless by comparison. I'll take this life, with all it's joys, sorrows, beauty and terror over the promises made by fools and madmen of a life to follow it.

 

[Vanlavak]

Atheism lacks spirituality, therefore, it needs spirituality.

That may be the worst syllogism ever written. Define 'spirituality'.

Try watching your video again, moving on from the 6:52 mark. "In music, one doesn't make the end of the composition the point of the composition." If your finite life is being lived merely to jockey for position in the infinite life that supposedly follows, then this life; the one you can be sure actually exists, is meaningless by comparison. I'll take this life, with all it's joys, sorrows, beauty and terror over the promises made by fools and madmen of a life to follow it.

Beautiful, you grasp the point of the video

 

[Noth]

First of all I do not feel that problem portrayed in the vid (only watched the suggested bit) at all. I live my life knowing it will eventually end, so I live the journey rather than the destination. I do not understand why you would think that is incompatible with atheism. Unless...

Unless you think that a human NEEDS that promise of 'something more'? Or do you mean to ask (sorry, you phrased it a bit weirdly) what atheism has to offer christians who might be losing their faith?
Even that is not actually a problem. As you might be aware of, a large part of this community comes from a religious background and has lost their faith. Yet when you ask them (and you may freely use me as an example) they'll tell you they're doing much better than when they were still religious and don't miss that 'spirituality' or desire for something more (generalising for the sake of argument).

And as a final comment:

"Atheism lacks spirituality, therefore, it needs spirituality."

Apple juice lacks bells, therefore it needs bells.

/commenting on the weirdness of that statement.

 

[Unwardil]

As for the video in question, I agree absolutely and had that 40 year old revelation of 'Oh, this is all a big ass scam isn't it?' somewhere around grade 4 I think. Perhaps this is why the idea of Christianity always turned me off because I've never been one to do anything for the simple purpose of arriving at a destination if there is any possible way I can avoid it. Spending every sunday morning being preached at and harangued by some racist homophobe while my ass cheeks systematically lose all feeling sure doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. (Obviously not all clergy are racist homophobes but even at their best, they're racist homophobe apologists)

So I've never actually seen the need for a destination type goal. Paradoxically of course, I do like to get anything I'm doing done, especially if it's a physical thing, so that I can then have it and while I typically won't create anything that I won't somewhat enjoy the process of making it, the process alone is not enough, I want to have a thing at the end that will go on being useful.

And that is where the spiritualism of atheism (for lack of a better term) comes in. Invest in the world you know. Do things in it that will make it better in a possibly insubstantial way, whatever it is you feel that would accomplish that, do that. As Ghandi said, be the change you wish to see in the world. Presto chango, Atheistic spiritualism.

 

[MindHack]

Hi Vanlavak,

I've enjoyed your video. Thanks.

Here is a video of a guy who, I think, has an interesting view on this topic.




And here is a guy giving a beautiful suggestion as an answer


hope you enjoy them as much as I did

 

[borrofburi]

Atheism lacks spirituality, therefore, it needs spirituality.

What is your answer to this problem?

Non sequitur. Vanlavak lacks cancer, therefore, Vanlavak needs cancer.

 

[televator]

If we're talking about spirituality as a wholly supernatural concept, I wouldn't call lacking that a problem. Being able to think free from the smoke screen of intangible supernatural explanations is a major advantage.

Anyway, it's all rather irrelevant. There is no statute of atheism that prohibits being "spiritual" if you don't believe in any gods.

 

[Vanlavak]

Hi Vanlavak,

I've enjoyed your video. Thanks.

And here is a guy giving a beautiful suggestion as an answer


hope you enjoy them as much as I did

I enjoyed your video too! thanks.

 

[australopithecus]

Define spirituality, then we'll talk.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

The biggest problem with atheism is that people like you don't understand it.

 

[RedYellow]

If this life, and every possibility of experience isn't enough for you then maybe it's your life that is empty. When you think of all the things you could do, knowledge you could acquire, places you could go, people you could meet in your own lifetime, to want more seems greedy and unappreciative of what you have.

 

[Laurens]

Sometimes, if I'm feeling in the right frame of mind, I'll sit there and ponder stuff.

Like how every living organism on this planet is related to a common ancestor, how there is an unbroken line from myself to the first life that arose on this planet. A line of ancestors who survived hardship on a scale we can scarcely comprehend, mass extinctions such as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, or the Permian extinction which ended the reign of over 90% of the species on our planet. Its pretty amazing that my line of ancestry survived for 3.9 or so billion years. What's more amazing though is that if you trace it back far enough we are directly related to non-life. Our line of ancestry eventually just becomes chemistry.

This links us to the universe in the deepest of ways. We are 'made of star stuff', 'a way for the cosmos to know itself' as Carl Sagan said. We are part of something more grand and beautiful than any religious myth would make out. A universe so ancient and vast that it literally defies comprehension.

That feeling you get when you go out on a clear night and look at the stars, contemplating the things I just said. That is far more real and far more moving than any religious experience. Some even call it a spiritual feeling, although I would not chose to use that term.

The biggest problem with religion is that they fail to realise, or deny these things. Fuck spirituality, atheism provides something more amazing - the truth.

 

[MindHack]

Sometimes, if I'm feeling in the right frame of mind, I'll sit there and ponder stuff.

Like how every living organism on this planet is related to a common ancestor, how there is an unbroken line from myself to the first life that arose on this planet. A line of ancestors who survived hardship on a scale we can scarcely comprehend, mass extinctions such as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, or the Permian extinction which ended the reign of over 90% of the species on our planet. Its pretty amazing that my line of ancestry survived for 3.9 or so billion years. What's more amazing though is that if you trace it back far enough we are directly related to non-life. Our line of ancestry eventually just becomes chemistry.

This links us to the universe in the deepest of ways. We are 'made of star stuff', 'a way for the cosmos to know itself' as Carl Sagan said. We are part of something more grand and beautiful than any religious myth would make out. A universe so ancient and vast that it literally defies comprehension.

That feeling you get when you go out on a clear night and look at the stars, contemplating the things I just said. That is far more real and far more moving than any religious experience. Some even call it a spiritual feeling, although I would not chose to use that term.

The biggest problem with religion is that they fail to realise, or deny these things. Fuck spirituality, atheism provides something more amazing - the truth.

Spirituality (spiritus) involves the human spirit, or mind/soul/. Religions may have hijacked the concept with an over emphasize put on supernatural phenomena, but it is an intrinsic part of our nature imo. I like contemplating the same amazing stuff as you do, but I regard it as a spiritual experience - something only the mind may attempt to grasp.

Isn't the fact that we're capable of contemplating that makes us spiritual beings by default?

 

[Laurens]

Spirituality (spiritus) involves the human spirit, or mind/soul/. Religions may have hijacked the concept with an over emphasize put on supernatural phenomena, but it is an intrinsic part of our nature imo. I like contemplating the same amazing stuff as you do, but I regard it as a spiritual experience - something only the mind may attempt to grasp.

Isn't the fact that we're capable of contemplating that makes us spiritual beings by default?

I'd agree with you. I just don't like the word spiritual for the religious connotations - If I said I'm spiritual to somebody they probably wouldn't assume that I didn't believe in the supernatural.

I see no point in trying to somehow reclaim the word 'spirituality'. It's like the swastika it was originally an ancient symbol with many different meanings, however I think you'd agree it would be folly to try and reclaim it because of the use of it by the Nazis has rendered it a universal symbol of hate.

I would rather not call myself spiritual and have to explain to everyone the specific sense in which I mean it. Like I would rather not go around with a swastika on my shirt and have to explain to everyone that I'm not a racist, and that I actually mean it in the way that the Buddhists use it or whatever.

 

[borrofburi]

Spirituality (spiritus) involves the human spirit, or mind/soul/. Religions may have hijacked the concept with an over emphasize put on supernatural phenomena, but it is an intrinsic part of our nature imo. I like contemplating the same amazing stuff as you do, but I regard it as a spiritual experience - something only the mind may attempt to grasp.

Isn't the fact that we're capable of contemplating that makes us spiritual beings by default?

What spirit?

 

[RichardMNixon]

The word "spirituality" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Saying "I'm a spiritual person" is another way of saying "I'm holier than thou." No thanks.

 

[WarK]

The word "spirituality" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

you have to learn how to drink your spirits

but yeah, this part of vocabulary is rather spoilt by the believers in supernatural.

 

[MindHack]

I see no point in trying to somehow reclaim the word 'spirituality'. It's like the swastika it was originally an ancient symbol with many different meanings, however I think you'd agree it would be folly to try and reclaim it because of the use of it by the Nazis has rendered it a universal symbol of hate.

Yeah, I see your point. I'm just not willing to let this one go so easily. "lightbulb" moments I've had in my life I regard as spiritual, but by naming it as such I feel the taste of religious supernaturalism. Imo reclaiming the word might still be easier than introducing a new word for spirituality, without religious connotations, though.

What spirit?

Good point. Not sure. I personally would say the ability to "think abstractly, with positive feelings attached"

Supernaturalism to label "thinking abstract nonsense to feel good". And applying knowledge and understanding about the natural world in order to feel awe and connectedness in my case. Something like that?

Anyway, my dictionary is equally vague: starting with Spirituality: "all things related to the spirit"

Dualism (body/soul), immaterialsm, cognitive processes, Inner experiences........

Is a brain surgeon a spiritual profession?

 

[Unwardil]

Spirit is just stuff you feel. It's not just your brain, but it's your kidneys and your pancreas and your shitty knees that don't like to sit down for more than an hour and it's all those things combined to make the spirit. It's not something that can be detached from the body, because it's a result of that body in connection with a super charged brain.

If your mind was a computer, the spirit would be the operating system. Periodic background virus scans and windows updates would be spiritual experiences, things you don't think about consciously and don't have any obvious input stimulus to make them go. Obviously there IS some kind of stimulus but without a perfect understanding of how the computer is working, it seems very random. (Imagine for a second that your computer didn't have an internal clock you could see and there was no calendar to keep track of when those pesky updates are scheduled. Obviously they're just scheduled regularly)