Bad faith at ground zero

[lrkun]

In which case why single out muslims, the same is true of many religions, certainly the Abrahamic ones. I'm fairly certain AiG, The Discovery Institute and The Hovind clan aren't muslim phenomena.

Ask him. I don't know how TF thinks. However, if I were to hazzard a guess, it's because it's the popular issue.

 

[Aught3]

I suspect it's got more to do with the way wealth is accumulated by very few people in these Middle Eastern countries rather than the religion. Islam possibly does have some impact though.

 

[DeathofSpeech]

I think Thunderf00t has definately lost the plot completely:



If I've misunderstood I apologise but this is what I got from this video:

The scientific method is awesome and gives societies the ability and tools to progress. Islamic countries have a bad track record of publishing for peer review and contributing to the scientific method, therefore Muslims either proactively or by virtue of being Muslims are detremental to scientific, and by extension, humanity's progess.

Am I missing something?

Well I had to sit and stare at my monitor for about 10 minutes after this.
TF seems to have devolved to the level of sandlot politics.

 

[australopithecus]

Thoughts? I'm inclinded to say BAWWW.

The arguments he's used recently against islam with regards to the Park 51 project are not the same as those he's used against creationists, and to make a fuss because people make a distinction between secularised and moderate Muslims and ramptant fundie Muslims while viewing creationsists as a group is childish. Creationism is a single issue in a large field, Islam is the large field. Not all muslims promote or endorse fundies, creationists ARE fundies and will promote each other.

Then to suggest that people only got pissy over Islam is dishonest. He knows why people got pissy, enough people have pointed that out. DLandonCOle and Th1sWasATriumph for example. He cant just pretend that people are touchy about him critising islam when the reasons why people are getting pissy with him have been pointed out.

 

[lrkun]

Thoughts? I'm inclinded to say BAWWW.

The arguments he's used recently against islam with regards to the Park 51 project are not the same as those he's used against creationists, and to make a fuss because people make a distinction between secularised and moderate Muslims and ramptant fundie Muslims while viewing creationsists as a group is childish. Creationism is a single issue in a large field, Islam is the large field. Not all muslims promote or endorse fundies, creationists ARE fundies and will promote each other.

Then to suggest that people only got pissy over Islam is dishonest. He knows why people got pissy, enough people have pointed that out. DLandonCOle and Th1sWasATriumph for example. He cant just pretend that people are touchy about him critising islam when the reasons why people are getting pissy with him have been pointed out.

I like the video. I'm going to add such to my favorites.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Another bad attempt to excuse himself.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

I see his point, but wow. He has brought all this shit on himself by using the worst phrasing possible, and now it definitely feels he's trying to weasel his way out of it.

 

[DeathofSpeech]

Thoughts? I'm inclinded to say BAWWW.

The arguments he's used recently against islam with regards to the Park 51 project are not the same as those he's used against creationists, and to make a fuss because people make a distinction between secularised and moderate Muslims and ramptant fundie Muslims while viewing creationsists as a group is childish. Creationism is a single issue in a large field, Islam is the large field. Not all muslims promote or endorse fundies, creationists ARE fundies and will promote each other.

Then to suggest that people only got pissy over Islam is dishonest. He knows why people got pissy, enough people have pointed that out. DLandonCOle and Th1sWasATriumph for example. He cant just pretend that people are touchy about him critising islam when the reasons why people are getting pissy with him have been pointed out.

TF's argument has at least become less ambiguous with this latest. He now openly resorts to the ad populum position as an argument for the content, while disregarding out of hand the contrary position. "I have fanboys therefore I'm right even if you have rational arguments."

 

[lrkun]

I think some people change over time. Maybe his viewers changed their way of thinking. I mean, TF's been consistent with his videos: A critic on religion.

My suggestion to TF (I doubt, he even reads these forums)

Instead of attacking the political issues or faults in the islamic faith, he must attack that which islam promises for its believers. Evidence that will make them doubt.

The promise of such faith is the precurser to the conclusion =indoctrinated zombie. When it is debunked, it may, in the least, force islam believers to rethink why they believe in something that has been proven wrong.

His argument and the use of evidence will only be understood by someone who is familiar with logic, arguments, or science. Not everyone tries to learn that. However, maybe, for some of the smarter viewers, they will be able to appreciate such.

TF must in some way understand that his viewers view things differently.

 

[australopithecus]

He's not attacking what Islam promises though, he just basically stated he will not entertain a plea for tolerance from a Muslim because they pray to Mecca and Mecca is off limits to non-Muslims, regardless of whether the guy/girl conversing about tolerance agrees with segregation in Mecca or not. He's tarring all Muslims with the same brush and then ignoring everyone who points out that's wrong.

Then he goes on to brand Muslims antithetical to the progress of humanity because the Islamic world hasn't got a great record at peer review level, and seeing as the scientific method progresses humanity then those who aren't readily involved must be bad for progess. It's a fallacy, correlation =/= causation. Fundie Islam may very well hinder science, but so does being poor as many Islamic countries are, or at least the wealth is not distirbuted evenly enough for science to flourish.

Now he's crying because people are calling him on the bullshit? Well that what happens when you assert bullshit. He's dished it out but seemingly can't take it and now he's trying to worm his way out of it by creating a strawman, that people are only getting pissy because he's attacking Muslims. That's bullshit, people are getting pissy because he's talking bollocks. He knows this is why because he's been told.

Seriously, he's basically Condell 2.0 at this point.

 

[lrkun]

He's not attacking what Islam promises though, he just basically stated he will not entertain a plea for tolerance from a Muslim because they pray to Mecca and Mecca is off limits to non-Muslims, regardless of whether the guy/girl conversing about tolerance agrees with segregation in Mecca or not. He's tarring all Muslims with the same brush and then ignoring everyone who points out that's wrong.

Then he goes on to brand Muslims antithetical to the progress of humanity because the Islamic world hasn't got a great record at peer review level, and seeing as the scientific method progresses humanity then those who aren't readily involved must be bad for progess. It's a fallacy, correlation =/= causation. Fundie Islam may very well hinder science, but so does being poor as many Islamic countries are, or at least the wealth is not distirbuted evenly enough for science to flourish.

Now he's crying because people are calling him on the bullshit? Well that what happens when you assert bullshit. He's dished it out but seemingly can't take it and now he's trying to worm his way out of it by creating a strawman, that people are only getting pissy because he's attacking Muslims. That's bullshit, people are getting pissy because he's talking bollocks. He knows this is why because he's been told.

Seriously, he's basically Condell 2.0 at this point.

The best solution is to attack the religion, not the people. If he thinks that is the cause, then he should focus on such. Besides, like in science, you can only focus on a little piece of the whole. So what factor about the religion? The promises. <--

With respect to the rest, he should, atleast by now- know, that he taught or atleast influence people to be skeptic. And criticism is free speech. MWAHAHA. It's best to admit a mistake when due.

Anyway, who started criticising TF first? I'm just wondering if someone is trying to cause a divide and conquer tactic?

 

[australopithecus]

Anyway, who started criticising TF first? I'm just wondering if someone is trying to cause a divide and conquer tactic?

Many, many, many people regardless of faith or lack of. Maybe if it were just Muslims or Christians criticising him, but it's not.

 

[lrkun]

Anyway, who started criticising TF first? I'm just wondering if someone is trying to cause a divide and conquer tactic?

Many, many, many people regardless of faith or lack of. Maybe if it were just Muslims or Christians criticising him, but it's not.

Then, if I were him, I'd be happy in such a case. He is making people think and exercise their freedom of speech. It's also publicity.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I love Coughlan. Calling people on bullshit wherever it is required.

 

[australopithecus]

That was 9 minutes and 38 seconds of some of the most sensible noise to come out of this debacle.

 

[DeathofSpeech]

The best solution is to attack the religion, not the people.

absolute agreement.

With respect to the rest, he should, atleast by now- know, that he taught or atleast influence people to be skeptic. And criticism is free speech. MWAHAHA. It's best to admit a mistake when due.

Well that seems to be pretty well bolloxed up. He's resorting to fundy tactics. Maybe he's been replaced by a pod-person.

Anyway, who started criticising TF first? I'm just wondering if someone is trying to cause a divide and conquer tactic?

It doesn't matter who started criticizing him first. The criticism is valid.

My suggestion to TF (I doubt, he even reads these forums)

He also doesn't appear to have much use for direct confrontation either.
In fairness, I'm not important enough that he has any reason to pay me one bit of notice.
People who are important enough though, also do not seem to be having much luck.

I'd like nothing better than to see TF post something like "okay, I'm a numpty. I lost my objectivity for a bit, but I'm feeling much better."
If Couglan doesn't manage to get his attention with this vid, I'd have to guess that TF has gone off to Planet Thunderf00t and will probably become Emperor Condell's next Sith apprentice.

 

[Nautyskin]

Coughlan is a touch hypocritical in that vid, it must be said. Look at 2:30. He talks about TF arguing about the argument. Coughlan's done at least one whole video doing the exact same thing, so he can hardly criticize him for that.

Besides that, I thought the video was great. Not funny (which is what I watch Coughlan for) but he really did stitch TF up in this one.

If Couglan doesn't manage to get his attention with this vid, I'd have to guess that TF has gone off to Planet Thunderf00t and will probably become Emperor Condell's next Sith apprentice.

He might get his attention, but if TF doesn't listen to people he respects, he's not going to listen to Coughlan.

I really am starting to feel quite bad for Thunderf00t here. He's a good guy. He's just making it harder and harder to ever back down from the position he has taken, and he's dragging his reputation through the mud with him.

I'd just like him to stop and at least consider that maybe he's wrong. I'm not sure he's even done that much yet.

 

[australopithecus]

Condell's funny?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Condell's funny?

No.

 

[australopithecus]

Thought so.