Atheists just want to sin.

[irmerk]

Perhaps most on this forum already came across this idea and it is not really as profound as I currently think.

Heard the Christians or other theists claiming atheists just want to sin and reject God in order to fulfill their desire? Well, out of the interest of self preservation, and moreover societal preservation, secular morals are created independently from any holy source. So, trying and overlook the whole historical factors which completely annihilate any idea of an objective morality, collective ideas form the current morals of the time.

Yet, the only requirement for entrance to heaven is to accept Jesus is God and died for your sins. Does this not do more to encourage sinning? I mean, fuck, you can do whatever you want so long as you accept Jesus and beg for forgiveness afterward.

Thoughts?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

That was always my thought as well. If you have a get out of jail free card, isn't that just an excuse for your own issues? It is no coincidence that so many convicts and junkies turn to Jeebus for forgiveness.

Plus, hey... no amount of religion stopped Ted Haggard from snorting meth off a hooker's cock. How about the Christians clean their own house before turning their attention to atheists, who are generally more well-adjusted than theists.

 

[irmerk]

Hahaha, yeah... I cannot remember the precise number, but is the atheist percentage of the incarcerated populous really low? Like, ten or less?

 

[Aught3]

Yeah I just love sin, but mostly I'm an atheist because there is not evidence for god.
On your second point I totally agree. With god on your side not only are all things permissible but forgivable as well, totally a-moral.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg.
Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[DarwinsOtherTheory]

Hahaha, yeah... I cannot remember the precise number, but is the atheist percentage of the incarcerated populous really low? Like, ten or less?

pfff ten? it's less than 1%

 

[Daealis]

pfff ten? it's less than 1%

Something like less than 0.5%. If the demographics have stayed relatively unchanged for the decade.

 

[Nemesis]

Most fundies say "I'm a sinner" so... yeah...
Atheists JUST want to sin, Christians want to sin AND love Jesus so they can go to Heaven and play with angels.

 

[Xiam]

Actually, I'm sick and tired of the so called 'loving' christians, telling me how evil I am over my non-belief in their god. I choose to be a good person, not because I FEAR hell if I'm not good. I have heard this before and it makes perfect sense...who is the better person, the one that is good out of fear or the one that chooses to be good, because, it's the moral thing to do?

I was reading a post on another site, stating how Atheist hate christians and jews. Well, that was news to me. I just love how we get accused of being evil, racist, hate mongers. When, in all actuality, we are more accepting of religions, races and gays...than the christians are.

Just because some christians, not all, have been brainwashed into thinking that Atheist are the devil's earthly mouth piece, doesn't mean it's true. At least, with an Atheist, you know exactly where you stand on the issue at hand. I only wish christians could say the same thing.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

We actually make a mistake by not stopping the conversation immediately at the word "sin." The entire concept simply doesn't apply to atheists, and we shouldn't even play along. "Sin" means breaking a religious rule. We aren't members of the religion. Therefore atheists cannot legitimately be accused of "sin" in any meaningful way.

 

[irmerk]

pfff ten? it's less than 1%

Ahh, makes me smile even more.

Something like less than 0.5%.

I'm grinning.

We actually make a mistake by not stopping the conversation immediately at the word "sin." The entire concept simply doesn't apply to atheists, and we shouldn't even play along. "Sin" means breaking a religious rule. We aren't members of the religion. Therefore atheists cannot legitimately be accused of "sin" in any meaningful way.

That is a good point I have never quite conceived as clearly as you did yet.

I was reading a post on another site, stating how Atheist hate christians and jews. Well, that was news to me... When, in all actuality, we are more accepting of religions, races and gays...than the christians are.

I think I am one that can say I do hate dogmatic, oppressive and backwards logic religious people. By this I do not mean every one of them, just the ones that impose their views on others through their vote and or indoctrination - especially with children - and try to undermine science and logic as we know it today (Such as PCS). I am tolerant of other peoples religions as long as they do not meet those three parts I mentioned last sentence, but that does not mean I think of them not dumb - really, really, really dumb.

 

[ebbixx]

I think I am one that can say I do hate dogmatic, oppressive and backwards logic religious people. By this I do not mean every one of them, just the ones that impose their views on others through their vote and or indoctrination - especially with children - and try to undermine science and logic as we know it today (Such as PCS). I am tolerant of other peoples religions as long as they do not meet those three parts I mentioned last sentence, but that does not mean I think of them not dumb - really, really, really dumb.

Hate is far too strong a word, at least for me.

I'm often saddened by and sometimes outraged at the abuses that have been (and are being) justified in the name of God and religion.

That predisposes me to view those institutions as oppressive and agents of everyday evil, at least when they support such actions.

But it doesn't lead to the conclusion that I "hate" those who believe, or those who meekly follow or even those who "lead" such organizations. I try to view all of their actions in light of human frailty and natural fears and basic drives. I'd rather think I have some small understanding of what drives people to submit to (or seek to rise within) such organizations than waste time and emotion "hating" them. Hating is a waste of time, and tends to cloud one's vision.

 

[felixthecoach]

Regarding the logic that you get free sin cards when you get saved, there are entire sections in the Bible regarding this problem. I think Paul wrote in Romans, both Corinthians and some of his letters to other groups that you don't get a "Get out of Hell Free Card" because Jesus died. So to be perfectly fair, it's a strawman to argue that about sin and salvation.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Regarding the logic that you get free sin cards when you get saved, there are entire sections in the Bible regarding this problem. I think Paul wrote in Romans, both Corinthians and some of his letters to other groups that you don't get a "Get out of Hell Free Card" because Jesus died. So to be perfectly fair, it's a strawman to argue that about sin and salvation.

No, it isn't a strawman... except in the sense that Christianity is a very flexible lie, able to be all things to all people, at the same time. Since there's no way to narrow down what the fuck a Christian means by "Christianity," pretty much every criticism of it can be dishonestly described as a "strawman."

 

[felixthecoach]

pretty much every criticism of it can be dishonestly described as a "strawman."

You've got a point! I mean, the compilation of the new testament (was it at the Council of Nicea, the Council of Trent or somewhere else?) was really a way to control people anyway.

I guess I was pointing out that most Christians are going to tell you that you don't know the Bible if pull the "get out of hell free" argument. They are going to say that it's not how the Bible reads and that you're making a strawman equivalent to Crock-a-duck.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

You've got a point! I mean, the compilation of the new testament (was it at the Council of Nicea, the Council of Trent or somewhere else?) was really a way to control people anyway.

I guess I was pointing out that most Christians are going to tell you that you don't know the Bible if pull the "get out of hell free" argument. They are going to say that it's not how the Bible reads and that you're making a strawman equivalent to Crock-a-duck.

They'll say that to YOU. When they think they've got their hooks in a prospective convert, the "get out of hell free" card comes right back out.

 

[felixthecoach]

It's like the Friends with benefits thing only with Jesus...hm. that didn't come out right.

 

[Ozymandyus]

The whole definition of Sin is absence of God I believe. Its this idea that we do not have a connection to God when/after we sin, because he is the font of all good or some such. At least that's how it was explained to me when I was a good little catholic.

So yeah, Atheists want to be Without God. We are sinners in that sense in the truest possible way. But, a christian would just say AHA of COURSE! or some such bullshit if you pointed this out to him. The very fact that an atheist can be as good or better than a christian, mostly even by their own standards, completely invalidates the whole notion of sin. Which is a corollary to what the OP was stating.

 

[irmerk]

Well, I hear God is everything and nothing exists outside of him... So... You know... Who knows about the whole hell, being apart from God, evil, etc.

 

[Canto]

Somthing I take issue with is the whole Atheists hate god line. I can't hate what I dont believe exists. I don't even hate the concept of god. I dont like what the god of the bible is portrayed to be. I don't like what I understand Allah to be. I dont like what is done in the name of gods. I dont like the abandonment of reason and rationality that is practically demanded by religion or the mental pretzel you have to become to make both coexist peacefully. Like many, I don't think the label of atheist is even appropriate as an indentifier. I don't have to say I'm a non-vegetarian, or a non-rapper.

Do I like to sin? Not as such. As I don't buy into the teachings of religion I don't believe that anything is a sin. I believe in right and wrong and that by doing the right thing by myself and those around me, I am living the best life I can. Humans do not need a religion to tell them that things are bad. We are capable of seeing that murder is rarely a good thing for the society we live in. Belief in god does not stop someone from murdering another human being, in some cases belief in god encourages, condones, and rewards murder.

Belief that Jesus will come back "very soon" is also detrimental. If you believe that the world will end in your lifetime, what encourages you to look to the future? Your future, you childrens future, societies future. These things lose some of their importance when you have faith that the world will end.

 

[Penguin_Factory]

This is something that really bugs me. It's not so much the assertion that atheists are immoral, it's the fact that people saying this stuff steadfastly refuse to address our actual position. It's very demeaning to be told what yo believe, especially when the opinions and motives being pinned on you are completely off the mark.