Atheistic Iconoclasm

[Gnug215]

I realise it will be a long process.

I am NOT suggesting we do this over night and do this now.

But WHAT THE HELL is the point of doing all these BLA BLA BLA Atheist things... If you are unwilling to claim that FINAL needed step?

We Atheists exist... says who? Says where?

We Atheists exist!

MAKE A STAND

Again... what?

This thread has gone on for quite a bit now, and I still don't know what your point is.

You are incomprihensible, angry, unreasonable, downright fundamentalist. Not exactly things I associate with atheists in general.

Now, if you could calm down, and then reaaaaaaally take your time structuring a coherent argument, that might help.

 

[Prolescum]

 

[australopithecus]

I kinda offend to be called a Crazy. But I do get why I would be named such. It is because you are missing the point, and I am unable to explain it to you in such a matter that it will complement your lack of understanding of my best and sincere attempt.

You do not need to have a Phd to understand how stuff works.

I may have an extreem Atheistic mind,.... But I will always listen to your opinionated mind.

Obviously it's our fault, and not at all that your lunatic ravings are the worst kind of spoilt, angry adolescent whining. We understand what you're saying, it's just you're talking bollocks.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

I kinda offend to be called a Crazy. But I do get why I would be named such. It is because you are missing the point, and I am unable to explain it to you in such a matter that it will complement your lack of understanding of my best and sincere attempt.

You do not need to have a Phd to understand how stuff works.

I may have an extreem Atheistic mind,.... But I will always listen to your opinionated mind.

Obviously it's our fault, and not at all that your lunatic ravings are the worst kind of spoilt, angry adolescent whining. We understand what you're saying, it's just you're talking bollocks.

I do not think I ever said this. But some have understood it altleast. League of Reason Forum Admin,... you are wrong.

Let allow me a last word, before this topic is closed.\

---

I am concerned. For us fellow atheists.

Whatever they try to do,.... religious terrorists will never have the effect they wish they will have. Why? Because by bred in biology,... Societies NEED will always outway the need of the individual small terrorist group. I would think it is mathematical impossible for a terrorist cell to have SUCH an impact it will change Darwininian Evolution.

So strike out that threat.

Am I wrong, wanting to fight for my Atheist believes? I aint saying you gotta agree with alll of it. We atheists are as divided as the god is on who to follow, the jews, christians or Islamists.

BUT,... if we atheists want to survive in this religious -from birth up fed- world,... we DO need to take a more active stand,... and we do need to have the defence capability,... to sustain our survival for future generations to come.

And it is looking pretty grim.

Tell me then,... those that think I speak SHIT,... in how many countries in this world is free speech allowed? In how many countries are Atheists considered a nemisis?

The USA had a major victory a few years ago. The first Negro president.
That was not unique,.. you had lots of them in Africa much earlier, bah the little dictatorial kinds.

Australopithecus , seems to not like me much. That is his right. But I am trying to raise a point here. You can not half bake it.

If you do not DEFEND Atheism, or are not willing too (due too perhaps political, cultural, religious reasons),... on what ever level, political or cultural Then Atheism is dead.


---


You can not passifly defend atheism. Are you a moron? Have you learned NOTHING from history?

 

[Inferno]

We have already addressed each and every one of your points. Also, this thread won't be locked or deleted, why should it? Just because you're a raving lunatic?

First, I do not believe that the threat is as big as you make it out. Yes, there are a few countries where atheism is still a cause for state sanctioned murder. Yes, there are still countries that discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, there is still a deep mistrust of atheists in some countries. But in other countries like the UK, Sweden, Austria and France, to name but a few, being an atheist is just as normal as being a white, young, heterosexual male in other countries. It's absolutely, perfectly normal. I can hold every office in my country, save for the religious ones of course.
And in those countries where it's a problem: Well, protest is taking place. It may take another century, sure, but then the anti-slavery movement took more than a few years, too. This is a very perceptible shift in society. We can actually see that more and more young people are non-religious. In fact, Jerry Coyne blogged about that poll the other day.

Second, even if it were a problem, I doubt war would be the answer. Chiefly among those arguments is that there are far more religious people: We would simply be crushed. It's a wholly idiotic idea. Second, it would be a horrible violation of everything I stand for, as I have already told you time and time again. Read. Read the writings of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Spinoza. If, after reading them, you still feel the need to attack other people, you're clearly a moron and didn't understand them. So go, read, educate yourself!

 

[australopithecus]

I do not think I ever said this. But some have understood it altleast. League of Reason Forum Admin,... you are wrong.

No, I'm really not.

Let allow me a last word, before this topic is closed.\

Who said anything about closing the topic? Your martyr complex is showing.

I am concerned. For us fellow atheists.

Your concern seem to be indistinguishable from adolescent angst.

Whatever they try to do,.... religious terrorists will never have the effect they wish they will have. Why? Because by bred in biology,... Societies NEED will always outway the need of the individual small terrorist group. I would think it is mathematical impossible for a terrorist cell to have SUCH an impact it will change Darwininian Evolution.

Er....what?

Am I wrong, wanting to fight for my Atheist believes? I aint saying you gotta agree with alll of it. We atheists are as divided as the god is on who to follow, the jews, christians or Islamists.

You're not fighting for a belief, you're fighting against an enemy you've created.

BUT,... if we atheists want to survive in this religious -from birth up fed- world,... we DO need to take a more active stand,... and we do need to have the defence capability,... to sustain our survival for future generations to come.

It's called secularism, kid. Look it up. It's also not exclusively to atheists.

Tell me then,... those that think I speak SHIT,... in how many countries in this world is free speech allowed? In how many countries are Atheists considered a nemisis?

The myriad human rights abuses carried out against atheists and apostates in theocratic countries doesn't need highlighting to us, by you. We're well aware of them, however you've constructed a bogeyman of religiosity who you claim is out to kill us all wherever we live. This is patently bullshit, and delusional.

The USA had a major victory a few years ago. The first Negro president.
That was not unique,.. you had lots of them in Africa much earlier, bah the little dictatorial kinds.

Obama is relevant because...?

Australopithecus , seems to not like me much. That is his right. But I am trying to raise a point here. You can not half bake it.

I neither like or dislike you, I just think you're talking bollocks.

If you do not DEFEND Atheism, or are not willing too (due too perhaps political, cultural, religious reasons),... on what ever level, political or cultural Then Atheism is dead.

Atheism is a rejection of theistic belief. It can't be dead anymore than the concept of not liking mayonnaise can be dead. If there is theism, they will be definition be atheism. You're so hung up on trying to attack theists that you miss the point entirely.

Allow me to spell it out for you:

I don't care about atheism. I care about secularism and humanism. Those concepts aren't mutually inclusive. Understand?

You can not passifly defend atheism. Are you a moron? Have you learned NOTHING from history?

I'm not trying to defend atheism. I'm trying to promote secularism.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

We have already addressed each and every one of your points. Also, this thread won't be locked or deleted, why should it? Just because you're a raving lunatic?

First, I do not believe that the threat is as big as you make it out. Yes, there are a few countries where atheism is still a cause for state sanctioned murder. Yes, there are still countries that discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, there is still a deep mistrust of atheists in some countries. But in other countries like the UK, Sweden, Austria and France, to name but a few, being an atheist is just as normal as being a white, young, heterosexual male in other countries. It's absolutely, perfectly normal. I can hold every office in my country, save for the religious ones of course.
And in those countries where it's a problem: Well, protest is taking place. It may take another century, sure, but then the anti-slavery movement took more than a few years, too. This is a very perceptible shift in society. We can actually see that more and more young people are non-religious. In fact, Jerry Coyne blogged about that poll the other day.

Second, even if it were a problem, I doubt war would be the answer. Chiefly among those arguments is that there are far more religious people: We would simply be crushed. It's a wholly idiotic idea. Second, it would be a horrible violation of everything I stand for, as I have already told you time and time again. Read. Read the writings of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Spinoza. If, after reading them, you still feel the need to attack other people, you're clearly a moron and didn't understand them. So go, read, educate yourself!

War?

The next is what YOU said:

... Second, even if it were a problem, I doubt war would be the answer.

Show me were I ever said Atheists should go to war.

I never said this. I said Iconoclasm, not... war.

I KNOW the freaking odds,.. that is why I am so at this. It is so important we Atheist make sure WE get a voice.

Iconoclasm is rebellion, revolution.... the simplests of forms of defiance. I am not propagading war.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

Whatever they try to do,.... religious terrorists will never have the effect they wish they will have. Why? Because by bred in biology,... Societies NEED will always outway the need of the individual small terrorist group. I would think it is mathematical impossible for a terrorist cell to have SUCH an impact it will change Darwininian Evolution.

Er....what?

You dont get this?
I said basically,... terrorist can try to BOMB what ever they want. It'll not effect Darwinian evolution. Culural society will always be back after whatever BS bombing, immediately. Terrorist can try to blow up what ever they want,... Evolution and Darwin, negates these human culural events. (the impact is too minimal)

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

Am I wrong, wanting to fight for my Atheist believes? I aint saying you gotta agree with alll of it. We atheists are as divided as the god is on who to follow, the jews, christians or Islamists.

You're not fighting for a belief, you're fighting against an enemy you've created.

BUT,... if we atheists want to survive in this religious -from birth up fed- world,... we DO need to take a more active stand,... and we do need to have the defence capability,... to sustain our survival for future generations to come.

It's called secularism, kid. Look it up. It's also not exclusively to atheists

Really australopithecus, you assume I did not know the word?

I am fighting as an atheist against an enemy I created? ... I am -an atheist- making up stuff?

You allow other peoples having made up fake gods?.... Or you accuse me making it all up?

Make up your mind.

...


And state secularism is no excuse to be a liar of scientic facts.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

Be an atheist.

Dont worry... do nothing... sure that will help the cause...

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

Atheism is a rejection of theistic belief. It can't be dead anymore than the concept of not liking mayonnaise can be dead. If there is theism, they will be definition be atheism. You're so hung up on trying to attack theists that you miss the point entirely.

Allow me to spell it out for you:

I don't care about atheism. I care about secularism and humanism. Those concepts aren't mutually inclusive. Understand?

I am not hung up on attacking theists. I do not miss the point. .I do understand. I do not condone any violennce.

I was only saying,... this tension WILL brake. An Iconoclasm WILL come. WE atheist need to be ready.

Yet your dumb religious mind sees a threat in me,... where the only threat is you and you ignorance of reality.

God does not exist.

Jesus is a lie.

Mohammed is a lie

Buddah is crap

Darwin's theory of evolution were proven right.
Newton theories were proven right.

How many more god should I start to mention,.. before you reralise how dumb your claim of a god is?
tons of theories are proven right.

 

[Inferno]

We have already addressed each and every one of your points. Also, this thread won't be locked or deleted, why should it? Just because you're a raving lunatic?

First, I do not believe that the threat is as big as you make it out. Yes, there are a few countries where atheism is still a cause for state sanctioned murder. Yes, there are still countries that discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, there is still a deep mistrust of atheists in some countries. But in other countries like the UK, Sweden, Austria and France, to name but a few, being an atheist is just as normal as being a white, young, heterosexual male in other countries. It's absolutely, perfectly normal. I can hold every office in my country, save for the religious ones of course.
And in those countries where it's a problem: Well, protest is taking place. It may take another century, sure, but then the anti-slavery movement took more than a few years, too. This is a very perceptible shift in society. We can actually see that more and more young people are non-religious. In fact, Jerry Coyne blogged about that poll the other day.

Second, even if it were a problem, I doubt war would be the answer. Chiefly among those arguments is that there are far more religious people: We would simply be crushed. It's a wholly idiotic idea. Second, it would be a horrible violation of everything I stand for, as I have already told you time and time again. Read. Read the writings of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Spinoza. If, after reading them, you still feel the need to attack other people, you're clearly a moron and didn't understand them. So go, read, educate yourself!

War?

The next is what YOU said:

... Second, even if it were a problem, I doubt war would be the answer.

Show me were I ever said Atheists should go to war.

I never said this. I said Iconoclasm, not... war.

I KNOW the freaking odds,.. that is why I am so at this. It is so important we Atheist make sure WE get a voice.

Iconoclasm is rebellion, revolution.... the simplests of forms of defiance. I am not propagading (Hint: propagate)war.

No, you silly little child, you misunderstand what even you are saying. Remember that Iconoclasm is the deliberate destruction of religious symbols. Do you really think billions of religious people would let the few atheists (yes, in contrast we are few) destroy their temples and holy imagery and stand idly by? Then you are a fool and sorely mistaken. They would be at our throats within seconds, it would be war and we would lose.

As I said, that's setting aside the fact that iconoclasm is, in my view, highly immoral. We should not stoop to their level, we should not be on any level at all as far as I'm concerned. Atheists are not a tight-knit band, they're a diverse bunch of people who have only one thing in common: Their disbelief in the existence of a God or Gods.

That being said, you specifically mentioned war right at the beginning:

However peaceful and morally noble you are and try to be, try to be as an Atheist (perhaps a humanist?)t, trying to make your point rationally,... at some point,.. there will be war and fighting.

It is in our human nature, to solve conflicts by using force,... and you should not run away from it. Be prepared to fight, as an Atheist,... for your beliefs. Because the other side will not give up without a fight. THEY have clearly shown the ability over the centuries., to take on a religious war. Atheist should do also.

You are a liar and a fool.
Now go do something useful and take care of your spots.

 

[australopithecus]

You dont get this?
I said basically,... terrorist can try to BOMB what ever they want. It'll not effect Darwinian evolution. Culural society will always be back after whatever BS bombing, immediately. Terrorist can try to blow up what ever they want,... Evolution and Darwin, negates these human culural events. (the impact is too minimal)

Evolution literally has nothing to do with this.

I am fighting as an atheist against an enemy I created? ... I am -an atheist- making up stuff?

Yes.

You allow other peoples having made up fake gods?.... Or you accuse me making it all up?

It's not my place to allow or disallow people to believe what they want. You've invented a monolithic theistic enemy that exists only in your mind. That's your problem, not mine.

And state secularism is no excuse to be a liar of scientic facts

You've presented no facts.

Be an atheist.

Dont worry... do nothing... sure that will help the cause...

There is no 'atheist cause'.

I am not hung up on attacking theists. I do not miss the point. .I do understand. I do not condone any violennce.

Demonstrably false.

I was only saying,... this tension WILL brake. An Iconoclasm WILL come. WE atheist need to be ready.

Paranoid delusion. Duly dismissed.

Yet your dumb religious mind sees a threat in me,... where the only threat is you and you ignorance of reality.

I'm an atheist, dumbass.

God does not exist.

Only Sith deal in absolutes.

Jesus is a lie.

Mohammed is a lie

And?

Buddah is crap

What has Buddah ever done to you?

Darwin's theory of evolution were proven right.

So?

Newton theories were proven right.

Actually, they're flawed which is why they were succeeded by relativity.

How many more god should I start to mention,.. before you reralise how dumb your claim of a god is?

I. AM. AN. ATHEIST. Maybe you missed that previously.

tons of theories are proven right.

Science doesn't prove, it evidences.

 

[Frenger]

God does not exist.

Citation please. Mostly, atheism is the lack of belief in a God or Gods or at least a rejection of those claims. Here, you are making a claim that God does not exist. Please define what you mean by God, and then show how such an entity doesn't exist.

Jesus is a lie.

Do you mean the person, character, legend, what? What part of the story of Jesus do you suggest is a lie, and how can you show that.

Mohammed is a lie

Same as above.

Buddah is crap

*Buddha

Also, he kicks ass.

Darwin's theory of evolution were proven right.

Darwin proposed the principle of natural selection, not evolution. Evolution was known of before Darwin. Also, as Austra says, science isn't proven right, nothing is proven outside of mathematics.

Newton theories were proven right.

Actually, Newtonian mechanics have been replaced by general relativity, but I get what you're getting at.

How many more god should I start to mention,.. before you reralise how dumb your claim of a god is?
tons of theories are proven right.

As you said positively God doesn't exist, the burden of proof switches to you. Describe your God, and show how it doesn't fit with reality.

 

[Gnug215]

I am not hung up on attacking theists.

You certainly seem that way. Iconoclasm is basically attacking religion, and that's what you're promoting, isn't it?

(Or is it? This entire thread is a mess on your part. Your OP, for instance, where you seem to be addressing... someone... directly. But who?)

I do not miss the point.

You have missed MANY points so far, but that is not your worst transgression. No, that would be all your rash, extremist, overly aggressive statements, of the kind that I've only ever before seen coming out of the mouth of religious extremists. Let the irony sink in for a bit on that one.

I do understand.

What do you understand? What is it that we have been saying to you all this time that you think you understand now?

I do not condone any violennce.

But you certainly, unmistakingly, unequivocally sound like you do in your posts. If you truthfully do not condone violence, then I urge you to take a deep, hard look at the way you're communicating.

I was only saying,... this tension WILL brake. An Iconoclasm WILL come. WE atheist need to be ready.

What exactly do you mean by "An Iconoclasm WILL come"?

What IS "An Iconoclasm"? You capitalized it, so it sounds like some specific, great event.

Since "iconoclasm" normally means religious symbols being attacked, why do atheists need to be ready for that? I would assume atheists would be doing the attacking - unless of course it's one religion up against another, in which case atheists will not be involved?

Yet your dumb religious mind sees a threat in me,... where the only threat is you and you ignorance of reality.

Now you're doing that thing again where you seem to be addressing someone directly. Are you? If so, whom? I don't really know anyone in this thread who is religious?

And well, I don't think anyone of us here sees you as a threat... except maybe to yourself.

God does not exist.

We don't really know that. That is a claim that is very hard to find evidence for. You seem awfully certain of it, though. Almost... religiously so.

Jesus is a lie.

Mohammed is a lie

Buddah is crap

Their existence, their teachings, or...?

(And why is Buddha crap as opposed to the other two being lies? Do you acknowledge his existence, but not that of the other two, or...?)

Darwin's theory of evolution were proven right.
Newton theories were proven right.

You don't seem to be all that knowledgable of science, since you're using the word "proven" here. And it's ironic that you're referring to Newton, since, as others here have already pointed out, some of Newton's theories were replaced by Relativity.

The point that I've just made may seem like semantic nitpicking, but it's actually quite important, since it shows that you are blinded by emotions to spout these things that are inaccurate, yet you do it with the fervor and absolutist conviction of a religious fanatic.

How many more god should I start to mention,.. before you reralise how dumb your claim of a god is?

Now you're really just starting to sound like someone who recently "found" atheism, and in your newfound "religious" conviction looked up some standard atheist talking points (without looking any deeper into any of them), and now you're hell-bent on preaching to everyone about it.

Well, you may think you've come here to preach to the choir (or, maybe, judging by some of your posts, do you think this is a site filled with theists??), but we have heard it all before, and the way you're preaching is just shallow, hollow and filled with misguided, unsubstantiated anger.

tons of theories are proven right.

And tons of theories have nothing to do with the existence of any gods.


In conclusion: You need to sit down, relax and think about what it is you're doing and saying.

And for the love of crap, try to make a coherent point in your next post!

 

[Prolescum]

I've genuinely given up attempting to talk to Estheria. It's quite a bit like trying to explain the internal combustion engine to a fish using only sign language and a pocket-sized Mars bar.

 

[Inferno]

I've genuinely given up attempting to talk to Estheria. It's quite a bit like trying to explain the internal combustion engine to a fish using only sign language and a pocket-sized Mars bar.

Is that a Mars bar in your pocket or are you just trying to teach fish?

 

[keenidiot]

Though there's no pictures, the style reminds me of Mabus' posts.

 

[Prolescum]

Though there's no pictures, the style reminds me of Mabus' posts.

Nah, he's a regular here. Our resident gamma-irradiated spam guard (Gnug215) catches him every time.

 

[keenidiot]

Though there's no pictures, the style reminds me of Mabus' posts.

Nah, he's a regular here. Our resident gamma-irradiated spam guard (Gnug215) catches him every time.

Hah, I know she/ he isn't Mabus just reminiscent.
I was disappointed that despite his arrest and diagnosis he doesn't seem to have changed any.