Atheistic Iconoclasm

[Estheria Quintessimo]

It would not be the first historical time it would have happened,... so knowing human nature,... it will probably not be the last either.

Iconoclasm

Some of it may not be without the use of force and violance.

The deliberate destruction of religious icons,... with the intend to promote another.

Tbh,... I can see -at this time- no other way,... any religion against Atheism will go. SImply because Atheism is so hated, in so many countries, culteres and believe systems

At some point the talks will end,... arms will be taken up, and people will start dying,...

It is whithin our human nature and capacity,... so do not think this is beyond the scope of reality!

...

Hang the Atheists?

Seriously,... you think that will accomplish anything? It will only inspire hatred and eventually lead to warfare

...

But you know, deep in your heart, you can never WIN from the atheists,... right....

... so now you are at an impass,.... what will you do?.... extend the level of your avg religion to the level of extreemism and start killing people?

-

You should realise before you answer the dilemma,... there are extreemists on the Atheist side too.

It is not a threat,...



It is human nature!

 

[Gnug215]

What?

 

[Inferno]

What?

I second that.

Estheria, this is the umpteenth time you've thrown random buzzwords out there and attached your hate-filled attitude to it. You're no better than any of the religious people you purport to hate so much.

So to you ideas I say "NO"! Let us follow the words of the great, late Christopher Hitchens: "We do not reply in kind!"


So I urge you: Read. Read the writings of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Spinoza. If, after reading them, you still feel the need to attack other people, you're clearly a moron and didn't understand them. So go, read, educate yourself!

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

 

[Hamster]

If I understood this , :shock: , the OP is saying there will be violence between Christians and atheists. How that fits iconoclasm I dont quite know.


It is possible I suppose but likely in a limited fashion.

 

[australopithecus]

What is this I don't even?

 

[Prolescum]

It would not be the first historical time it would have happened,... so knowing human nature,... it will probably not be the last either.

The implication here is that humans are, by their very nature, violent destructive arseholes. I do not agree with this.

Iconoclasm

Some of it may not be without the use of force and violance.

The deliberate destruction of religious icons,... with the intend to promote another.

I think we all know what iconoclasm means, but where is is supposed to come from and to whom is it directed?

Tbh,... I can see -at this time- no other way

Am I understanding you correctly that you are suggesting people go out of their way to destroy other people's things in the cause of atheism? Please tell me that I am mistaken.

any religion against Atheism will go. SImply because Atheism is so hated, in so many countries, culteres and believe systems

Will go where?
I don't believe atheists or atheism are "hated", but besides that, wouldn't destroying the property of others make people actually hate you? Seems like the most arse-backward idea yet.
Assuming I understand this OP correctly...

At some point the talks will end,... arms will be taken up, and people will start dying,...

What talks? Whose arms? Which people?

It is whithin our human nature and capacity,... so do not think this is beyond the scope of reality!

Eh?

Hang the Atheists?

Seriously,... you think that will accomplish anything? It will only inspire hatred and eventually lead to warfare

Who says this, where are they saying it, how strong a voice do they have?

But you know, deep in your heart, you can never WIN from the atheists,... right....

Oh you're talking to a narrative device.

... so now you are at an impass,.... what will you do?.... extend the level of your avg religion to the level of extreemism and start killing people?

You know, we have a sub-forum for posting your own fiction.

You should realise before you answer the dilemma,... there are extreemists on the Atheist side too.

You haven't posed a dilemma, you've supposed an unlikely series of events with only one conclusion (already stated).

It is not a threat,...



It is human nature!

Altruism is also in human nature, as is building communities, hope, and compassion.

If the point of this thread is to incite an uprising against your perception of the religious, it will fail. Your position is fundamentally preposterous.

Sent from my Commodore 64

 

[Gnug215]

Seriously... what?

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

I realise I said it bad and wrong earlier. What I meant is just this:

Religion in the past has always been the measure of society and culture. These days in the west,... there is a strong tendicy towards Atheism.
It will take many centuries of further development,... untill the whole world is filled with atheists gradually. But this will never happen gradually.

What I tried to say,... is that it will never go so peacefully. Important changes build up to a tension and EXPLODE, that is when revolutions happen.

I mentioned Iconoclasm as that would be an excellent example of a medieval culture clash. Two religion bunting head,... war, killing,.. all that.
...


However peaceful and morally noble you are and try to be, try to be as an Atheist (perhaps a humanist?)t, trying to make your point rationally,... at some point,.. there will be war and fighting.

It is in our human nature, to solve conflicts by using force,... and you should not run away from it. Be prepared to fight, as an Atheist,... for your beliefs. Because the other side will not give up without a fight. THEY have clearly shown the ability over the centuries., to take on a religious war. Atheist should do also.

If Atheists do not unite,... globally,.... we will all be nulified way sooner then you can say 'what?', like they do in Iran with Atheists: HANG THEM.

If Atheists do not globally unite and only keep picking at minor issues which individually concerns them,... not noting the grand issue,... then nothing of rationality Atheists try to accomplish will succeed.

YOU WILL BE RUN OVER

Whomever thought Atheist are humanists and peace loving guys,...is wrong.

Perhaps still a bit fuzzy,.. I hope I explained it better now atleast.

( I was drunk during the OP)

 

[Visaki]

I think you're wrong.

In my country of Finland , depending on your defenition of "atheist", 16% - 50% of population are atheists. There is no violence, no great crisis, no overbearing pressure. The Finnish national church is trying to change with the times and to stem the tide of people not only leaving the church but also theism alltogether (not succeeding were well I might add), but as far as I've seen none of the higher ups in the church are even raising their voices against atheists.

Of course this kind of development won't be universal and is, in my oppinion, highly dependant on the education level of the population, but I see why not, at least the western countries, the change couldn't be gradual and non-violent.

 

[Gnug215]

I realise I said it bad and wrong earlier.

It's not so much that it was bad and wrong, it was that it was totally unintelligible.

This time you have managed to explain yourself better, but what you're saying is unfounded, nonsensical, sensationalist generalization to the extreme.

What I tried to say,... is that it will never go so peacefully. Important changes build up to a tension and EXPLODE, that is when revolutions happen.

As Visaki already mentioned, changes have occurred pretty much without incident in Finland. It is exactly the same picture you see in Denmark.

We have seen plenty of societal and cultural changes in recent times, without the world exploding.

I don't know why you seem so bent on there being fighting. It is almost as if you're wishing for it.

However peaceful and morally noble you are and try to be, try to be as an Atheist (perhaps a humanist?)t, trying to make your point rationally,... at some point,.. there will be war and fighting.

It is in our human nature, to solve conflicts by using force,... and you should not run away from it. Be prepared to fight, as an Atheist,... for your beliefs. Because the other side will not give up without a fight. THEY have clearly shown the ability over the centuries., to take on a religious war. Atheist should do also.

If Atheists do not unite,... globally,.... we will all be nulified way sooner then you can say 'what?', like they do in Iran with Atheists: HANG THEM.

If Atheists do not globally unite and only keep picking at minor issues which individually concerns them,... not noting the grand issue,... then nothing of rationality Atheists try to accomplish will succeed.

YOU WILL BE RUN OVER

Atheists fighting for their beliefs? What beliefs? Are you sure you know what "atheism" actually means? It's fine if your have your own little definition of it, but don't project that definition onto others, and don't just assume everyone has the same definition as you.

Also, I thought most atheists were opposed to unfounded beliefs in the world, not hell-bent on forcing their own beliefs onto others.

And as if Iran is a perfect model of what will happen in the rest of the world.


Pretty much the only way you'll be right in your predictions is if people actually listen to the likes of you, and decide to use violence to bring about a forceful change of society.

Whomever thought Atheist are humanists and peace loving guys,...is wrong.

There you go again, assuming things on behalf of others. Claiming to know what people are, what they feel and what they think. Are you the leader of some huge atheist group and know exactly what all of them think?

What you sound like is actually a rabid creationist, since they have this really annoying tendency to claim to know what all atheists are thinking (with statements such as "You just want to deny God so you can sin without punishment" or the like.)

You are truly NOTHING what I think most atheists and humanists are. You are rash, unreasonable, irrational, bigoted, antagonistic, fundamentalist, extremist, illogical and all the things you're saying are simply not based on ANY kind of evidence.

The irony of you so adamantly claiming to speak for atheists while being diametrically opposed to everything I think they stand for is amazing.

I urge you to stop this irrational and destructive path you are taking with your mind. Take some time to actually think about what you're doing, and what you're preaching. (Yes, it actually seems like you're preaching. Funny, isn't it?)

 

[Prolescum]

I realise I said it bad and wrong earlier. What I meant is just this:

Religion in the past has always been the measure of society and culture.

As is education, engineering, the arts... There are innumerable ways to measure the value or worth of a society or a culture; simplifying it to make a point only illustrates the paucity of your perception.

These days in the west,... there is a strong tendicy towards Atheism.

Not certain that's true, but for the sake of argument, I'll go with it.

It will take many centuries of further development,... untill the whole world is filled with atheists gradually. But this will never happen gradually.

So what? What difference does it make?

What I tried to say,... is that it will never go so peacefully. Important changes build up to a tension and EXPLODE, that is when revolutions happen.

I think you're watching too much American TV.

I mentioned Iconoclasm as that would be an excellent example of a medieval culture clash. Two religion bunting head,... war, killing,.. all that.
...

Okaaay.

However peaceful and morally noble you are and try to be, try to be as an Atheist (perhaps a humanist?)t, trying to make your point rationally,... at some point,.. there will be war and fighting.

Why is that the only outcome? What makes it inevitable?

It is in our human nature, to solve conflicts by using force

It is also in our nature to compromise, to look after others, to work together.

The argument from nature can be used to make almost any argument you like (humans are both varied and similar enough for one to make generalisations on any topic - see astrology), therefore, it has no real meaning and is useless for making a point.

and you should not run away from it. Be prepared to fight, as an Atheist,... for your beliefs.

Of all the beliefs I have, atheism isn't one of them.

Because the other side will not give up without a fight.

Ah, classic. Eye for an eye, eh? Where did you learn that? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, they tell me.

THEY have clearly shown the ability over the centuries., to take on a religious war. Atheist should do also.

Are the Christians alive today the ones who fought in the Crusades?

If Atheists do not unite,... globally,.... we will all be nulified way sooner then you can say 'what?', like they do in Iran with Atheists: HANG THEM.

You will never get atheists to unite as one for the same reason you'll never get all non-stamp collectors to unite as one.

If Atheists do not globally unite and only keep picking at minor issues which individually concerns them,... not noting the grand issue,... then nothing of rationality Atheists try to accomplish will succeed.

So what is it you believe "atheists" as a whole are trying to achieve? I can guarantee it ain't some ridiculous non-religious utopia.

YOU WILL BE RUN OVER

I BLOODY WELL WILL NOT, YOU KNOW

Whomever thought Atheist are humanists and peace loving guys,...is wrong.

What does this even mean?

Perhaps still a bit fuzzy,.. I hope I explained it better now atleast.

( I was drunk during the OP)

It is still gibberish, I'm afraid to say. Nothing you've added here has given any weight to this thread or your other ones. We once had a person more vitriolic on the matter than you. You can review his conversation here.

I once suggested to you that you consider why other atheists feel differently than you do, and I will make the suggestion again.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Good to see that our track record of discussions with crazies is untouched.

Jolly good.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

What?

I second that.

Estheria, this is the umpteenth time you've thrown random buzzwords out there and attached your hate-filled attitude to it. You're no better than any of the religious people you purport to hate so much.

So to you ideas I say "NO"! Let us follow the words of the great, late Christopher Hitchens: "We do not reply in kind!"


So I urge you: Read. Read the writings of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Spinoza. If, after reading them, you still feel the need to attack other people, you're clearly a moron and didn't understand them. So go, read, educate yourself!

It is not the intend, there is no deliberate purpose. It is as is, the view of the situatiuon. I appollogize that I am not a scolar, not even an english native speaker. And I get words wrong sometimes.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

Good to see that our track record of discussions with crazies is untouched.

Jolly good.

Define crazy. Because that would be the whole point of discussion.
It would all be a matter of perspective.

What makes you and your culture not crazy compared to mine?
Whatever crazy talk do you consider crazy? From your unique cultural perspective?

I do not HATE. Hate is a hard word.,I have a sincere dislike too, and a very hard time making my point. I realize that. But I do not HATE.

I do not pull white sheets -with holes for eyes- over my head. Oprah is cool. I pomiss you I am one of the few that did not dislike Islam after 9-11. Because I know how history works.

Atheists have to make a choice. We cant stay on the defence for ever. If the actions of Christians in the USA towards Atheists is any measure,... then it is clear Atheists HAVE TO make a more dominant stand.

F*ck the rest.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Atheists have to make a choice. We cant stay on the defence for ever. If the actions of Christians in the USA towards Atheists is any measure,... then it is clear Atheists HAVE TO make a more dominant stand.

F*ck the rest.

You're joking right?

Religious activism in America is at a startling low - it's more of party games than anything. DADT was repealed. No public schools have mandatory prayer legally anymore.
There's not even an all-encompassing state religion unlike some European Countries still have.

It's the 0.001% of people that make 99.999% of the noise in these instances.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

I think you're wrong.

In my country of Finland , depending on your defenition of "atheist", 16% - 50% of population are atheists. There is no violence, no great crisis, no overbearing pressure. The Finnish national church is trying to change with the times and to stem the tide of people not only leaving the church but also theism alltogether (not succeeding were well I might add), but as far as I've seen none of the higher ups in the church are even raising their voices against atheists.

Of course this kind of development won't be universal and is, in my oppinion, highly dependant on the education level of the population, but I see why not, at least the western countries, the change couldn't be gradual and non-violent.

IN YOUR COUNTRY, but that aint the point now is it? What about all the other countries? You have to see this globally.

Atheists can not afford to see them selves loccaly. Atheists, their opinions wide spread,.... can NOT afford to be localized in minor rural area's. You can not have 1 or 5 atheist opinions rurally, against 1000 believers of whatever religion. You are and will be nullified. Your opinion then, wont matter anymore.

You said this:
The Finnish national church is trying to change with the times

No, the finish church is not trying to survive with the times. What the Finish Church is doing,... is lie to you. Explain how the Finish Church is adapting to the times?

I sure hope you do not say 'they use twitter',...

But you ARE MISSING the point all together. YOU ARE making my point and case.
Why would a Church need to change? If It is perfect?

The Church aint perfect,... and once you see that,... you realize it is wrong too.

 

[australopithecus]

You seriously need to get laid.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

I kinda offend to be called a Crazy. But I do get why I would be named such. It is because you are missing the point, and I am unable to explain it to you in such a matter that it will complement your lack of understanding of my best and sincere attempt.

You do not need to have a Phd to understand how stuff works.

I may have an extreem Atheistic mind,.... But I will always listen to your opinionated mind.

 

[Estheria Quintessimo]

I realise it will be a long process.

I am NOT suggesting we do this over night and do this now.

But WHAT THE HELL is the point of doing all these BLA BLA BLA Atheist things... If you are unwilling to claim that FINAL needed step?

We Atheists exist... says who? Says where?

We Atheists exist!

MAKE A STAND