Atheist rules vs Religious rules

[Grimlock]

When ever i bring up Atheism and "ruling" countries/having great power at home.

My father usually brings up that the worlds greatest mass murders have all been Atheists he mentions Hitler Stalin and Mao Zedong have all been Atheists.
I have since been able to refute Hitler by pointing out that he wasn,´t an Atheist, but a Catholic.

But what about the others can we call them Atheists or where they on the Religious side instead of the Atheists?

And what about the religious Rulers have they been more "benign" then their Atheist counterparts?

 

[derkvanl]

Well, I don't know who was an atheist or not when it comes to people who murdered, but when it comes to counting the numbers of dead people in general I think religion killed a lot more than atheism.

 

[RestrictedAccess]

By his logic, the religious have more blood on their hands that atheists. It's a two way street when you start using atrocities committed by members of a certain groups as an indication that the group itself is no good. If it works for atheists, it'll work for the religious, and vice versa.

 

[nemesiss]

Communism was a comprehensive, all-embracing religion and not simply a political party, political system or philosophy. This fact is illustrated by the numerous ways in which Communism embraced and attemped to promulgate peculiar quasi-religious (and often clearly anti-scientific) beliefs which had nothing all to do with politics or government. Although Communism typically touted itself as anti-religious and pro-science, it was, in fact, deeply anti-scientific and clearly a religion. One of Communism's hallmarks in the Soviet Union and China was its aggressive and violent suppression of other religions. Communism was "anti-religious" only in the sense that it forcibly suppressed all religions other than itself.


source: http://www.adherents.com/people/ps/Joseph_Stalin.html


conclusion: stalin who was a communist, clearly was NOT atheist

 

[DrunkCat]

My father usually brings up that the worlds greatest mass murders have all been Atheists he mentions Hitler Stalin and Mao Zedong have all been Atheists.

But he doesn't mention Ferdinand?

 

[psychointegrator]

When ever i bring up Atheism and "ruling" countries/having great power at home.

My father usually brings up that the worlds greatest mass murders have all been Atheists he mentions Hitler Stalin and Mao Zedong have all been Atheists.
I have since been able to refute Hitler by pointing out that he wasn,´t an Atheist, but a Catholic.

But what about the others can we call them Atheists or where they on the Religious side instead of the Atheists?

And what about the religious Rulers have they been more "benign" then their Atheist counterparts?

Atheism (from infidels.org):

Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings.

Some atheists go beyond a mere absence of belief in gods: they actively believe that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist. Just lacking belief in Gods is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position; whereas believing that gods do not (or cannot) exist is known as "strong atheism."

Regarding people who have never been exposed to the concept of 'god': Whether they are 'atheists' or not is a matter of debate. Since you're unlikely to meet anyone who has never encountered religion, it's not a very important debate...

It is important, however, to note the difference between the strong and weak atheist positions. "Weak atheism" is simple skepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong atheism" is an explicitly held belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists." There is a qualitative difference in the "strong" and "weak" positions; it's not just a matter of degree.

Some atheists believe in the nonexistence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials.

Theism (from a an encyclopedia of philosophy):

Theism signifies belief in one god (theos) who is (a) personal, (b) worthy of adoration, and (c) separate from the world but (d) continuously active in it.
According to theism, God is a Subject possessing not only mind but also will. Being fully personal, he can be conceived through images drawn from human life and be addressed as "thou" in prayer. Theists regard this personal God of religion as the ultimate reality...

First of all, I would inquire as to how atheism is even relevant. Before furthering communication it is unwise to not ensure everyone means the same thing with the words being used. Perhaps it's a bit compulsive obsessive in me, however, it seems a waste of time to not require this as a foundation. It also allows some people to disingenuously slip in more than there is
When people blather about god, simply ask them to define the attributes of god. It's comical how few are able to define this godthing. This also opens them up to explaining how they know these things about "god." If they use doctrine, that is their evidence. If they had a personal experience, we know enough to rip that apart as a valid form of communication with god.
If you simply let them use god as if we all agreed to the meaning, it allows them to use a word which is meaningless yet place holding their belief system which is nothing more than what we lowly humans argue about. No magicmandunit to make absolute claims and such


Hitler was not an atheist just to note. It is not difficult to find ample examples. Now, lets say you even hold that Hitler was an atheist.
How is this relevant to his Christian soldiers?
Hitler, while the head stuff muffin, was not the one committing the mass murders.

P.S.
From what I've read in the holy books, "god" wiped out all life except for a boat of animals.

 

[xman]

Those men were power hungry ideologues. Religion has more in common with ideologies like their brand of communism than secular atheism does.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Here is a thought; monarchy is, by definition, belief in the "divine right" for someone to rule. Kings aren't usually nice. Nazism and the KKK have religious undertones. Religion caused slavery in US, the inquisition, the dark ages, helped spread the plauge, imprisoned Gallileo, caused a jihad on US soil, started the war in the middle east, and countless other things. Is atheism or theism worse.... :?:

:idea:


maybe theism? Just a little bit?

 

[MRaverz]

A few keywords here.

Numerous Crusades, numerous Jihads.

Both were /are exclusively religiously driven.


Stalin, Hitler etc were not religiously driven, they were politically driven. They didn't murder because they were atheists and were not more susceptible to murder because they were atheist (bring up statistics comparing atheist populations in prisons to those in the general population), they murdered because they were fascists etc.

 

[MRaverz]

Here is a thought; monarchy is, by definition, belief in the "divine right" for someone to rule. Kings aren't usually nice. Nazism and the KKK have religious undertones. Religion caused slavery in US, the inquisition, the dark ages, helped spread the plauge, imprisoned Gallileo, caused a jihad on US soil, started the war in the middle east, and countless other things. Is atheism or theism worse.... :?:

:idea:


maybe theism? Just a little bit?

On slavery, in countries where it still exists today - each is strongly Islamic. I think certain Sharia councils even see no problem with it.

 

[WolfAU]

For me, this is just arguing that religion is a "useful lie" that keeps people under control... Even if its true which there is alot of evidence against, its largely irrelevent to what is true.

 

[nasher168]

Who gives a shit what religion they were? I would try and point out that, unless your father is accusing you of being amoral simply because you don't believe in God, the question has no relevance to the situation at hand and CERTAINLY has no relevance to whether or not God exists or not..

 

[MillionSword]

Well, I don't know who was an atheist or not when it comes to people who murdered, but when it comes to counting the numbers of dead people in general I think religion killed a lot more than atheism.

Atheism hasn't killed anyone.

 

[IrBubble]

Of course atheism has killed people, depending on how you see it. The problem however is that it is the religious doing the killing because of atheism.

 

[theatheistguy]

conclusion: stalin who was a communist, clearly was NOT atheist

Stalin wasn't a Communist, he was a state-capitalist, very different.

 

[nasher168]

Stalin wasn't a Communist, he was a state-capitalist, very different.

But he did his nasty stuff in the name of communism. The people of the USSR were ruled by what they thought was a communist government.

 

[MillionSword]

Of course atheism has killed people, depending on how you see it. The problem however is that it is the religious doing the killing because of atheism.

Then that's religion killing people.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Intent matters. Stalin killed people because he was a totalitarian dictator, not because he was an atheist. Bin Laden kills people because of religion. Religious zealots kill people a lot more than zealous atheists do.

Religion is dangerous because it discourages free thought and expression, forbids dissent, in the same way Stalin's regime did. Most atheist advocates advocate free thought first and foremost.

And again, even if atheists were evil, that wouldn't make god exist.

 

[theatheistguy]

But he did his nasty stuff in the name of communism. The people of the USSR were ruled by what they thought was a communist government.

I could do something in the name of France (I've never been to France), but that doesn't mean that France has in any way influenced what I am doing, nor is it responsible for it. To make it more personal, I could claim to do something in your name, like sign a cheque, or kill small children, but again, you would not be responsible for that.

Many leaders have used religion as a way of silencing the common man (paraphrased from Napoleon) or making them bow to their will, however, others use nationalism or a political movement as a guise for their true intentions. And since when where the individual people of a nation actually responsible for the actions of its government, especially when it's a totalitarian dictatorship? You mean to tell me that ever American and British citizen is responsible for the million dead Iraqi's and Afghani's?

 

[Niocan]

Spiritual rule: Do what thou wilt with Love as the Law.
(specifically, this is for Service to Others; For service to self, Fear is the Law)
Simple enough