Armenian genocide

[Leçi]

Was it a genocide or a massacre or something else? I know most historians call it a genocide but is there any conclusive evidence? I don't know why turkey is so obsessed about not calling it genocide. They act like the whole world is against them.

The definition of genocide:
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

After how many murders (or % of the group) is it considered to be a systematic extermination?
How big does the group have to be? (it's possible you kill 2 people who were accidentaly the only 2 members of a starting political group)

 

[Dean]

Genocide is generally thought of (even if it is not part of the definition) as the deliberate exterminate of a "mass" group of people based on arbitrary distinctions, such as race or religion. (**Waves To Improbable Joe**) The specifics of the numbers is more to the point. I'd say even killing in the tens does not count as a full and proper "genocide", as genocide is ordinarily thought of. I'd say it comes around the triple digits zone, at the earliest....

But that's pretty arbitrary to be honest. It's not a question with an easy answer. One of the largest ever genocides was obviously the Holocaust, which accounted for some 6 million Jews, not to mention hundreds of thousands of Gypsies and Homosexuals, as obvious examples.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Was it a genocide or a massacre or something else? I know most historians call it a genocide but is there any conclusive evidence? I don't know why turkey is so obsessed about not calling it genocide. They act like the whole world is against them.

The definition of genocide:
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

After how many murders (or % of the group) is it considered to be a systematic extermination?
How big does the group have to be? (it's possible you kill 2 people who were accidentaly the only 2 members of a starting political group)

I'm not willing to try to play a numbers game on something as serious as genocide, you know? All I can do is rely on what historians say, and they seem almost universally in agreement that this was a genocide. And Turkey's behavior in suppressing and rewriting history seems to be a sign of guilt.

 

[Dean]

Yes. There really isn't a truly explanatory definition of genocide, but we can only infer what counts as genocide. Seems that the Armenian Massacre was indeed, according to all historical sources.

 

[theyounghistorian77]

Well "Genocide", according to the United Nations...

UN resolution 260[/url]"]"...means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Applying that definition and from what i've read, What happened to the Armenians certainly constitutes a genocide:

SPLC[/url]"]The documentary evidence of the genocide includes a 1915 telegram to a Turkish provincial official from Behaeddin Shakir, one of the leaders of the secret organization created to plan and carry out the genocide, which included death squads staffed by criminals released from prison for that purpose. "Are the Armenians, who are being dispatched from there, being liquidated?" Shakir wrote. "Are those harmful persons being exterminated, or are they merely being dispatched and exiled? Answer explicitly."

I also found this if you want to have a look at it:

 

[exhaledeeply]

My husband is a Turk and is very adamant that it did not happen. He says that the pictures that they have are not conclusive to anything and Turks are not the only people that say this.

Now, I don't agree with him, but it's a touchy subject, so we don't touch it. But it is interesting how an entire country would completely deny it. But, he also says how amazing the Ottomans were and how nice they were to the countries they took over in the Ottoman Empire. His proof is that they didn't force their religion on them. And the countries went on running as usual. I don't know enough about history to make an informed debate; however, whenever he brings up American's tendency to romanticize the war, I give him a :| face.

 

[RichardMNixon]

But it is interesting how an entire country would completely deny it.

There are entire countries which deny the Holocaust also. Some Japanese deny the atrocities in China and the government didn't formally apologize until 1995. It's really not remarkable.

On that note, any well-known American war atrocities I should know about that my country forgets to mention? Aside from the 21st century war-for-all?

 

[Anachronous Rex]

But it is interesting how an entire country would completely deny it.

There are entire countries which deny the Holocaust also. Some Japanese deny the atrocities in China and the government didn't formally apologize until 1995. It's really not remarkable.

On that note, any well-known American war atrocities I should know about that my country forgets to mention? Aside from the 21st century war-for-all?

How many American Indians have you seen recently?

 

[RichardMNixon]

How many American Indians have you seen recently?

Fair cop. I find that one is pretty difficult to deal with when discussing Israeli settlers, two-states, and such.