Aren't the 10 Commandments in the Old Testament

[Story]

I've been a little confused about this for a while. I've heard people saying that the rules in the old testament don't apply anymore, but being really vehement about the 10 commandments.

Is there some sort of reason for this or is this one of those super rare cases of theistic irrationality?

 

[quantumfireball2099]

I've been a little confused about this for a while. I've heard people saying that the rules in the old testament don't apply anymore, but being really vehement about the 10 commandments.

Is there some sort of reason for this or is this one of those super rare cases of theistic irrationality?

Well, in my experience, it's not rare at all..

10 Commandments are cool, and all that shit about stoning your children, and doing blood sacrifice to cure leprosy... well that must have worked, cause it's in the bible!!! And the Bible was written by God! Sure, God told the Isrealites to kill infants, but hey, that was OK at the time...

I think these people are mentally retarded, honestly.

Yeah, they pick and choose what they want to believe out of the old testament. That's pretty much it.

 

[Story]

Well if you think about it. If you had a time machine and went back a couple thousand years it'd be okay to kill your children as long as you brought them back with you, but once you pass the 19th and 20th centuries it becomes wrong again.

 

[lrkun]

I don't know if there are only 10 commandments because when I'd check the net, I'd find more than 10, but I do believe, back then, this served as their moral code. People back then needed a system to conform to. Moses successfully used these laws to govern his people; that's assuming the story is true, and if not, (insert your own idea).

I can't say they're irrational because the circumstance back then are not similar to now.

 

[quantumfireball2099]

I don't know if there are only 10 commandments because when I'd check the net, I'd find more than 10, but I do believe, back then, this served as their moral code. People back then needed a system to conform to. Moses successfully used these laws to govern his people; that's assuming the story is true, and if not, (insert your own idea).

I can't say they're irrational because the circumstance back then are not similar to now.

Right, to men, but to say that there is an objective morality in the bible is BS. Murdering a child is either right or wrong, not both. The moral code in the bible is not superior to anything else, ever, like they claim.

 

[lrkun]

I don't know if there are only 10 commandments because when I'd check the net, I'd find more than 10, but I do believe, back then, this served as their moral code. People back then needed a system to conform to. Moses successfully used these laws to govern his people; that's assuming the story is true, and if not, (insert your own idea).

I can't say they're irrational because the circumstance back then are not similar to now.

Right, to men, but to say that there is an objective morality in the bible is BS. Murdering a child is either right or wrong, not both. The moral code in the bible is not superior to anything else, ever, like they claim.

I agree when you say that it's an unsubstantiated claim that objective morality is the source of a bible because those morals might as well have been invented by moses assuming that he exists and the event took place. Adding the god basis because assuming it was written back then, the people believed in the supernatural.

I'm not familiar with the murdering a child in the ten commandments.

I agree when you say that the moral code in the bible is not superior to anything else

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Just taught interesting to note that the 10 commandments isn't what people think, they have litle to nothing to do with morals.

First of all christians talk about the 10 commandments, but remember that they are 10. If christians are inquiered on the 10 commandments they generaly are only able to say "don't kill", "don't steal", "don't lie" and if they are really hardcore they might also say "don't cheat". Not only they are at least 6 short but also none of those are the real 10 commandments as expressed in the bible.
And I quote:

34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
34:3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
34:4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
34:10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
34:11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
34:12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
34:17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
34:18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
34:19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
34:23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
34:24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
34:25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

 

[Story]

Wow... I had no idea that the Matrix was in the 10 commandments.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Wow... I had no idea that the Matrix was in the 10 commandments.

Matrix in this sense may refer to the matriarc of a herd animal, i.e. the first born of a cow you shall sacrifice to God.

 

[quantumfireball2099]

I never knew he didn't eat or drink for 40 days and nights! What a miracle!

EDIT: Also the only important ones are mentioned by Jesus;

"Then someone came to him and said, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.' He said to him, 'Which ones?' And Jesus said, 'You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honour your father and mother; also, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.'"
,Matthew 19:16-19, NRSV

Some of them are not even part of the '10 commandments', such as loving your neighbor as yourself. Maybe he felt that like was a needed addition? Jesus is God after all...

 

[lrkun]

I never knew he didn't eat or drink for 40 days and nights! What a miracle!

If that's true, then it caused his hallucination. He imagined meeting god who talked to him mysteriously. He therefore came up with the commandments. Hahaha.

 

[nophun]

Has anyone heard a actual argument for Jesus changing the laws of the OT ?
I get stonewalled when I ask where this belief comes from. We are all aware of times in the Bible where Jesus is pro-Torah law, Yet I am having a hard time remembering even one situation where is against any of the laws.

(By against I mean speaks out against or asks the people of the time to change)

 

[Laurens]

Has anyone heard a actual argument for Jesus changing the laws of the OT ?
I get stonewalled when I ask where this belief comes from. We are all aware of times in the Bible where Jesus is pro-Torah law, Yet I am having a hard time remembering even one situation where is against any of the laws.

(By against I mean speaks out against or asks the people of the time to change)

As far as I'm aware it is Paul who advocates doing away with Jewish law not Jesus.

"Think not that I come to destroy the law or the prophets; I come not to destroy, but to fulfill."
Matthew 5:17

Jesus was a Jew and he would have observed Jewish law, and early Christians probably did too. The idea of not following the law of the Old Testament probably began when Christianity spread among the Gentiles.

 

[Vanlavak]

I don't know if there are only 10 commandments because when I'd check the net, I'd find more than 10, but I do believe, back then, this served as their moral code. People back then needed a system to conform to. Moses successfully used these laws to govern his people; that's assuming the story is true, and if not, (insert your own idea).

I can't say they're irrational because the circumstance back then are not similar to now.

Right, to men, but to say that there is an objective morality in the bible is BS. Murdering a child is either right or wrong, not both. The moral code in the bible is not superior to anything else, ever, like they claim.

The moral code is superior to the lack of moral code, you, sir, are wrong.

 

[Story]

The moral code is superior to the lack of moral code, you, sir, are wrong.

Is it?

A lack of moral code does not necessitate a person's ill conduct. As a matter of fact it is very beneficial to be a "good" person. One could be "good" selfishly.

The "moral" code pervasive in the bible calls people to kill, maim and torture. A lack of moral code does not.

So sir, it seems, you are wrong.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Has anyone heard a actual argument for Jesus changing the laws of the OT ?
I get stonewalled when I ask where this belief comes from. We are all aware of times in the Bible where Jesus is pro-Torah law, Yet I am having a hard time remembering even one situation where is against any of the laws.

(By against I mean speaks out against or asks the people of the time to change)

As far as I'm aware it is Paul who advocates doing away with Jewish law not Jesus.

"Think not that I come to destroy the law or the prophets; I come not to destroy, but to fulfill."
Matthew 5:17

Jesus was a Jew and he would have observed Jewish law, and early Christians probably did too. The idea of not following the law of the Old Testament probably began when Christianity spread among the Gentiles.

That quote from Matthew is precisely the one people quote when they argue that Jesus did away with the old law. They claim that his sacrifice on the cross is the fulfillment of the law, and that now all you have to do is recognize his sacrifice and all your sins are paid for. It's of course bogus for them to claim this, which is made obvious when you continue reading:

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

As far as I can tell at least earth is still around, so the law hasn't been fulfilled.

 

[Caractacus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IePirrYBP_s

i can't figure out this websites weird youtube config thingy... but um anyway, tis a good vid. worth a watch.

 

[Laurens]

*~hitchens~*

i can't figure out this websites weird youtube config thingy... but um anyway, tis a good vid. worth a watch.

I don't think *~hitchens~* is a valid url...

EDIT ah sorry, I see you've fixed it now

 

[Caractacus]

*~hitchens~*

i can't figure out this websites weird youtube config thingy... but um anyway, tis a good vid. worth a watch.

I don't think *~hitchens~* is a valid url...

EDIT ah sorry, I see you've fixed it now

yeah... but thanks for quoting my fail for all to see

... :evil:

 

[Tenderfoot]

Wow... I had no idea that the Matrix was in the 10 commandments.

Matrix in this sense may refer to the matriarc of a herd animal, i.e. the first born of a cow you shall sacrifice to God.

It might not apply in this context, but I think that matrix can also mean the uterus.

Regards,
Tenderfoot