Are We Living in an Ancestor Simulation?

[leroy]

[Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmVOV7xvl58[/Youtube]


As explained in the video, given a few realistic assumptions there would be a strong mathematical argument for the hypothesis that we are just a simulation.

the mathematical argument would be something like this>

given that the mayority of minds that exist in the universe are artificial minds that live inside a simulation, it is more probable than not that you live inside a simulation, and maybe Aliens simply what to know how would you react if you (a simulated being) would react if you are confronted to this theory.

maybe you are just part of a betting site in some alien world and aliens are betting on whether fi you will accept or reject the simulation hypothesis after watching the video


Assumptions
1 There is intelligent life in other planets and/or in other universes, with enough technology to create simulated worlds with intelligent minds in it, where these minds are not aware that they are part of a simulation

2 some of these intelligent beings have the willingness to create billions and billions of these simulated worlds

none of these assumptions has been proven but most people would grant that these assumptions are at least possible. So as long as you consider these assumptions realistic and probably true, you would have to consider seriously the idea that you live inside a simulation.



assumption 1, the idea of other intelligent life that is much more intelligent than human doesn't not seem to be an unrealistic assumption.

assumption 2 we create simulations all the time, ether for entertainment, or for something useful like predicting the climate, so why wouldn't intelligent Aliens create simulations with intelligent minds in it for similar reasons.

 

[Grumpy Santa]

WIthout evidence I have no reason to believe it's true.

 

[Steelmage99]

Even with evidence that it was true I would have no reason to behave any differently from the way I would behave if it wasn't true.

 

[Visaki]

I agree with both Grumpy Santa and Steelmage99 on this, though it seems that leroy butchered his way through the idea of Simulated Reality hypothesis in his usual manner.

Also this is just a bit more mathematical version of the base problem of hard solopsism.

Though...

given that the mayority of minds that exist in the universe are artificial minds that live inside a simulation,

Given what? :shock: Was that explained in the video (I can't watch atm) or is this just an claim? Or does someone have a very lax definition of what a "mind" is?

 

[thenexttodie]

[Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmVOV7xvl58[/Youtube]


As explained in the video, given a few realistic assumptions there would be a strong mathematical argument for the hypothesis that we are just a simulation.

the mathematical argument would be something like this>

given that the mayority of minds that exist in the universe are artificial minds that live inside a simulation, it is more probable than not that you live inside a simulation, and maybe Aliens simply what to know how would you react if you (a simulated being) would react if you are confronted to this theory.

maybe you are just part of a betting site in some alien world and aliens are betting on whether fi you will accept or reject the simulation hypothesis after watching the video


Assumptions
1 There is intelligent life in other planets and/or in other universes, with enough technology to create simulated worlds with intelligent minds in it, where these minds are not aware that they are part of a simulation

2 some of these intelligent beings have the willingness to create billions and billions of these simulated worlds

none of these assumptions has been proven but most people would grant that these assumptions are at least possible. So as long as you consider these assumptions realistic and probably true, you would have to consider seriously the idea that you live inside a simulation.



assumption 1, the idea of other intelligent life that is much more intelligent than human doesn't not seem to be an unrealistic assumption.

assumption 2 we create simulations all the time, ether for entertainment, or for something useful like predicting the climate, so why wouldn't intelligent Aliens create simulations with intelligent minds in it for similar reasons.

It's all just another dumb thing atheists posit from time to time. Ignore it.

 

[leroy]

WIthout evidence I have no reason to believe it's true.

Well but you don't have evidence that you life in a real physical world ether, do you? all you have is your own personal and subjective experience.


according to your own personal and subjetive brain you are a physical being living in a physical universe, but why trusting your subjective brain?


should we trust our own personal and subjective brains?



what are your thoughts on this ?

 

[Grumpy Santa]

WIthout evidence I have no reason to believe it's true.

Well but you don't have evidence that you life in a real physical world ether, do you? all you have is your own personal and subjective experience.


according to your own personal and subjetive brain you are a physical being living in a physical universe, but why trusting your subjective brain?


should we trust our own personal and subjective brains?



what are your thoughts on this ?

On the contrary, all the evidence I have, every speck of it, is that I'm living in a real, physical world. In addition there's no evidence to the contrary. This isn't only my own subjective viewpoint, no one in the entirety of our species has ever demonstrated evidence that we're not living in a real, physical world.

Then of course there's the level of detail of physical things off our world that imply we're on a tiny, real, physical world in a mundane corner of one galaxy among countless, but that's a different story.

according to your own personal and subjetive brain you are a physical being living in a physical universe, but why trusting your subjective brain?

Because it's proven so far to be reliable for me, that's why. The information I take in and the results I conclude can be verified by others. I have no diagnoses of any mentally degenerative or impairing conditions. It hasn't let me down yet, even working so well as to discard the possibility of latching onto mythologies as factual for my entire life.

 

[leroy]

[Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmVOV7xvl58[/Youtube]


As explained in the video, given a few realistic assumptions there would be a strong mathematical argument for the hypothesis that we are just a simulation.

the mathematical argument would be something like this>

given that the mayority of minds that exist in the universe are artificial minds that live inside a simulation, it is more probable than not that you live inside a simulation, and maybe Aliens simply what to know how would you react if you (a simulated being) would react if you are confronted to this theory.

maybe you are just part of a betting site in some alien world and aliens are betting on whether fi you will accept or reject the simulation hypothesis after watching the video


Assumptions
1 There is intelligent life in other planets and/or in other universes, with enough technology to create simulated worlds with intelligent minds in it, where these minds are not aware that they are part of a simulation

2 some of these intelligent beings have the willingness to create billions and billions of these simulated worlds

none of these assumptions has been proven but most people would grant that these assumptions are at least possible. So as long as you consider these assumptions realistic and probably true, you would have to consider seriously the idea that you live inside a simulation.



assumption 1, the idea of other intelligent life that is much more intelligent than human doesn't not seem to be an unrealistic assumption.

assumption 2 we create simulations all the time, ether for entertainment, or for something useful like predicting the climate, so why wouldn't intelligent Aliens create simulations with intelligent minds in it for similar reasons.

It's all just another dumb thing atheists posit from time to time. Ignore it.

obviously, no one in this forums believes that he is a simulation. but at least form an atheistic / verificationist point of view there are no good reasons to reject the simulation hypothesis



from a theist point of view there are at least 2 good reasons to reject this hypothesis



1 according to our view (well according to most theists) the mind is more than just atoms and molecules, we believe that the mind has a spiritual (non material) origin, therefore it would be impossible for an alien or any other physical being to create a mind, therefore it is impossible to create these kind of simulations


2 If God created us, why would he create us with a brain that provides false experiences? why would Good create a virtual world, with the illusion of it being physical?


so if we grant theism, there would be good reasons to reject the simulation hypothesis

what are your thoughts on this?



are you ready for cascade of atheist comments and insults that have nothing to do with any of the points that I am making?

 

[Grumpy Santa]

obviously, no one in this forums believes that he is a simulation. but at least form an atheistic / verificationist point of view there are no good reasons to reject the simulation hypothesis

Of course there is. Lack of evidence.

from a theist point of view there are at least 2 good reasons to reject this hypothesis



1 according to our view (well according to most theists) the mind is more than just atoms and molecules, we believe that the mind has a spiritual (non material) origin, therefore it would be impossible for an alien or any other physical being to create a mind, therefore it is impossible to create these kind of simulations


2 If God created us, why would he create us with a brain that provides false experiences? why would Good create a virtual world, with the illusion of it being physical?


so if we grant theism, there would be good reasons to reject the simulation hypothesis

what are your thoughts on this?

While reaching a similar conclusion (accidentally), you reached it on assumptions and assertions rather than the presence or absence of evidence. You're taking the wrong path but getting to the right destination.

 

[leroy]

[
On the contrary, all the evidence I have, every speck of it, is that I'm living in a real, physical world. In addition there's no evidence to the contrary. This isn't only my own subjective viewpoint, no one in the entirety of our species has ever demonstrated evidence that we're not living in a real, physical world.

but all that evidence is brain dependent, you don't have brain independent evidence for the existence of a physical world, all the evidence has to be interpreted by your own subjective and bias brain.

no one in the entirety of our species has ever demonstrated evidence that we're not living in a real, physical world

other species could also be part of the simulation.

according to your own personal and subjetive brain you are a physical being living in a physical universe, but why trusting your subjective brain?

Because it's proven so far to be reliable for me, that's why. The information I take in and the results I conclude can be verified by others. I have no diagnoses of any mentally degenerative or impairing conditions. It hasn't let me down yet, even working so well as to discard the possibility of latching onto mythologies as factual for my entire life.

well I completely agree with that line of reasoning, if your brain tells you that the world is physical and you have no good reasons not to trust your brain, then it is rational to grant these experiences as reliable. and the burden poof goes to anyone who thinks otherwise.

that is a successful solution for the simulation paradox


But you will be impressed to know that many members form this forum would disagree with that kind of reasoning and they will even mock you for thinking like that.

 

[leroy]

Given what? :shock: Was that explained in the video (I can't watch atm) or is this just an claim? Or does someone have a very lax definition of what a "mind" is?

we can define mind, as any entity that is aware of his own existence

 

[Grumpy Santa]

[
On the contrary, all the evidence I have, every speck of it, is that I'm living in a real, physical world. In addition there's no evidence to the contrary. This isn't only my own subjective viewpoint, no one in the entirety of our species has ever demonstrated evidence that we're not living in a real, physical world.

but all that evidence is brain dependent, you don't have brain independent evidence for the existence of a physical world, all the evidence has to be interpreted by your own subjective and bias brain.

Not mine alone. I can compare my observations with everyone else's. No human being ever has provided evidence that we're living in a simulation therefore there's simply no reason to suspect or believe that we are. It's really that simple.

no one in the entirety of our species has ever demonstrated evidence that we're not living in a real, physical world

other species could also be part of the simulation.

If this were a simulation then everything we know would be a part of it of course. Again, lack of evidence is enough reason to not bother with a belief. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence after all.

according to your own personal and subjetive brain you are a physical being living in a physical universe, but why trusting your subjective brain?

Because it's proven so far to be reliable for me, that's why. The information I take in and the results I conclude can be verified by others. I have no diagnoses of any mentally degenerative or impairing conditions. It hasn't let me down yet, even working so well as to discard the possibility of latching onto mythologies as factual for my entire life.

well I completely agree with that line of reasoning, if your brain tells you that the world is physical and you have no good reasons not to trust your brain, then it is rational to grant these experiences as reliable. and the burden poof goes to anyone who thinks otherwise.

that is a successful solution for the simulation paradox

But you will be impressed to know that many members form this forum would disagree with that kind of reasoning and they will even mock you for thinking like that.

I would tweak this a little just in reminding that those with the burden of proof need to present evidence and not merely make the assertion or resort to "logical" trickery (you know, like Sye Ten with his "how do you know you know" crap...).

There's also another thing that needs clarification if I may... it's not just that my brain is telling me that I actually exist in the real, physical world, it's that that's where all the evidence lies. I'm not trying to assert that something exists which has no evidence for it's existence, if I did that then the burden would shift right back onto my shoulders. It's not just that the experiences are reliable, it's that the evidence points to them being reliable.

 

[MarsCydonia]

I see Leroy is trying his If you trust your physical senses, why can't I trust my "Imma special boy" senses argument again.

 

[leroy]

There's also another thing that needs clarification if I may... it's not just that my brain is telling me that I actually exist in the real, physical world, it's that that's where all the evidence lies. I'm not trying to assert that something exists which has no evidence for it's existence, if I did that then the burden would shift right back onto my shoulders. It's not just that the experiences are reliable, it's that the evidence points to them being reliable.

yep, I agree,


but according to some members of this forum that is a fallacious way of thinking, lets see if they have the balls and correct you and ridicule you .........

 

[leroy]

I see Leroy is trying his If you trust your physical senses, why can't I trust my "Imma special boy" senses argument again.

do you have the balls to correct and ridicule Grumpy Santa for making a statement, that you believe is wrong ?

 

[MarsCydonia]

yep, I agree,

but according to some members of this forum that is a fallacious way of thinking, lets see if they have the balls and correct you and ridicule you .........

Oh so you agree? :lol:

What made change your mind Leroy? And when did you change it? Because you never agreed before whenever you talked about Leroy's brainless human choices/will/free will/libertarian free will/freedom/etc. or Leroy's subjective-objective morality.

(I'm betting that Leroy does not even realize what he just agreed with).

 

[MarsCydonia]

do you have the balls to correct and ridicule Grumpy Santa for making a statement, that you believe is wrong ?

Bet won.

 

[leroy]

do you have the balls to correct and ridicule Grumpy Santa for making a statement, that you believe is wrong ?

no you don't

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


well to be fair there are 2 different users that share the profile that goes by the name MarsCydonia, each of them has radically different world views...............


to which MarsCydonia am I talking to in this post?



the verificationist skeptic that will never accept anything without verifiable evidence or the soft MarsCydonia that is willing to accept realities based on his own experiences even if you cant prove them ?

 

[MarsCydonia]

no you don't

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well to be fair there are 2 different users that share the profile that goes by the name MarsCydonia, each of them has radically different world views...............

to which MarsCydonia am I talking to in this post?

the verificationist skeptic that will never accept anything without verifiable evidence or the soft MarsCydonia that is willing to accept realities based on his own experiences even if you cant prove them ?

So you do disagree? Wait, two comments ago you agreed with GrumpySanta?

So many contradictions, should I guess that there is two Leroy? Nah, there's only one Leroy, it's simply that he's a complete moron.

 

[Grumpy Santa]

I see Leroy is trying his If you trust your physical senses, why can't I trust my "Imma special boy" senses argument again.

do you have the balls to correct and ridicule Grumpy Santa for making a statement, that you believe is wrong ?

For the sake of clarification, what statement did I make that Mars would consider "wrong"?