Anyone else get irritated with quantum physics?

[OmegaMale]

There's a phenomenon I've noticed in discussions among sufficiently science and/or philosophy-minded people... namely that when the discussion progresses and possibly gets more involved, somebody always brings up quantum physics to argue some more or less valid point. It's like a quantum version of the Godwin, and it has started to annoy me.

I enjoy good science discussions as much as anyone else, but it seems that people who tend to bring it up are more or less laymen (and I consider myself such as well) and when quantum physics gets thrown in to the discussion it seems like no one knows what they're talking about anymore.

It's as if the weirdness of quantum physics gives one the freedom to use said weirdness to justify any weird idea: The quantum world is a mystery... God is a mystery... Maybe they are the same mystery, hence quantum physics proves god... etc., substitute your favorite muddle-headed idea for god.

Anyone else have the feeling that quantum physics just gives more bollocks ammo for the Deepak Chopra types and thus automatically get a bit nauseous every time it's mentioned in a discussion?

 

[DeusExNihilum]

Yeah, Though usually I just toss out Feynman's infamous quote and leave it at that, Which is all I can do really. I'm not well versed enough (and never will be well versed enough) To actually debunk their fallacious usage of Quantum weirdness beyond pointing out that they're not well versed enough to even begin using it as an argument or proof of something like God or Magic etc.

 

[SchrodingersFinch]

 

[casey]

There's a phenomenon I've noticed in discussions among sufficiently science and/or philosophy-minded people... namely that when the discussion progresses and possibly gets more involved, somebody always brings up quantum physics to argue some more or less valid point. It's like a quantum version of the Godwin, and it has started to annoy me.

I doubt that it is a common "phenomenon" as I have never seen anyone but Chopra that incorporate quantum science in his BS. Maybe I am just an ignorant...


Personally, I tried to avoid the discussion on quantum physics because I am not an expert (not because of quantum Godwin's law).

 

[lrkun]

Theoretical physics is subject to abuse by creationist, because it gives them the opportunity to use accepted theories and apply it in a way to explain the existence of a theoretical god.

The contrary view is to say that God did it, which is of course some theist-scientists are having a hard time accepting, because it provides nothing and in effect causes their own questions left unanswered.

 

[OmegaMale]

Yeah, Though usually I just toss out Feynman's infamous quote and leave it at that, Which is all I can do really.

Haha, my strategy too

Personally, I tried to avoid the discussion on quantum physics because I am not an expert (not because of quantum Godwin's law).

Yes, me too... But that's kind of my point, many seem to have no qualms about bringing up QP just to camouflage their BS. I see it as an issue of intellectual honesty.

Theoretical physics is subject to abuse by creationist, because it gives them the opportunity to use accepted theories and apply it in a way to explain the existence of a theoretical god.

The contrary view is to say that God did it, which is of course some theist-scientists are having a hard time accepting, because it provides nothing and in effect causes their own questions left unanswered.

Definitely.... it just seems to me that QP is especially prone to such abuse because it is a genuinely difficult topic. That's why creationists and other pseudo-intellecuals are drawn to it, I think.... they are not likely to be called on their BS because very few are truly knowledgeable about it. I'd like to see that change.

That video clip was great too!

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I doubt that it is a common "phenomenon" as I have never seen anyone but Chopra that incorporate quantum science in his BS. Maybe I am just an ignorant...


Personally, I tried to avoid the discussion on quantum physics because I am not an expert (not because of quantum Godwin's law).

It is very common among certain areas of woo, specifically health and medicine woo merchants. Everything is "quantum activated" and "mind-body duality" and "What the BLEEP Do We Know?" and other nonsense. They misread the Copenhagen Interpretation to claim that since observation affects experimental outcomes, "consciousness" can alter the world on a macroscopic level without physically touching things.

 

[Deleted member 1004]

It's similar in Biology with DNA and the tracing back of generations to common ancestor. Mapping and understanding genomes are some of the forefront n Biology and subsequently becuase there are still "gaps" in understanding where currently there are hypothesies, people like creationists are happy to jump in to grab what chance they have.

The same principle applies to the forefront of physics research. The Higgs Boson and the Quark particles, along with quantum mechanics bring us closer to understanding a much bigger picture, but again the questions remained are subject to denialism, critisism, and a lot of wasted time.

 

[Deleted member 619]

The thing is, at bottom, QM is not really that difficult, it's just counter-intuitive, because it doesn't match up to our middle-world way of thinking. When you properly grasp the implications of the uncertainty principle, it's actually fairly straightforward to get hold of, apart from some pretty esoteric mathematics.

Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe provides excellent explanations for the layman with regard to QM.

One of the real problems is that nobody actually knows why quantum mechanics works the way it does, whence the phrase 'shut up and calculate' There are quite a few possible interpretations, some more woo-filled than others. The favoured explanation among navel-gazers always seems to be Everett's MWI, while among mathematicians it tends to be Feynmann's path integral formulation, and among cosmologists it tends to be the Copenhagen. Which of these is correct, if indeed any of them are, is not known.

Chopra's a fuckwit, and is easily the worst offender in this regard. It did, however, provide a really lolworthy video when theoretical physicist Leonard Mlodinow was in the audience at one of his discussions. Video follows:

 

[DeusExNihilum]

Ow...Chopras stupid made my brain hurt :x

 

[Nautyskin]

You beat me to it, Hack.

Classic.

 

[DeathofSpeech]

There's a phenomenon I've noticed in discussions among sufficiently science and/or philosophy-minded people... namely that when the discussion progresses and possibly gets more involved, somebody always brings up quantum physics to argue some more or less valid point. It's like a quantum version of the Godwin, and it has started to annoy me.

I enjoy good science discussions as much as anyone else, but it seems that people who tend to bring it up are more or less laymen (and I consider myself such as well) and when quantum physics gets thrown in to the discussion it seems like no one knows what they're talking about anymore.

It's as if the weirdness of quantum physics gives one the freedom to use said weirdness to justify any weird idea: The quantum world is a mystery... God is a mystery... Maybe they are the same mystery, hence quantum physics proves god... etc., substitute your favorite muddle-headed idea for god.

Anyone else have the feeling that quantum physics just gives more bollocks ammo for the Deepak Chopra types and thus automatically get a bit nauseous every time it's mentioned in a discussion?

Oh my favorite has to be mentions of "Omega Point Theory" and CS fundy Tippler, followed by "The Uncertainty Principle means you can't be certain god doesn't exist."

 

[monitoradiation]

I don't know how people like Chopra can live with themselves. Seriously. On some level they must know that they're full of BS.

 

[OmegaMale]

I don't know how people like Chopra can live with themselves. Seriously. On some level they must know that they're full of BS.

I think the way they can live with themselves is that they seem to care more about what feels good and exciting rather than what's true. For a truly scientific mind you can't have one without the other, but this is obviously not the case with the Deepa Chopra types. I think Chopra probably sees himself as more of an entertainer than a scientist, and sadly in order to be the former he must appear the latter at whatever cost.

 

[DTBeast]

I don't know how people like Chopra can live with themselves. Seriously. On some level they must know that they're full of BS.

I think being able to sit in a bathtub full of $100 bills may help

 

[monitoradiation]

I think the way they can live with themselves is that they seem to care more about what feels good and exciting rather than what's true. For a truly scientific mind you can't have one without the other, but this is obviously not the case with the Deepa Chopra types. I think Chopra probably sees himself as more of an entertainer than a scientist, and sadly in order to be the former he must appear the latter at whatever cost.

That's probably true to some extent. It's kinda like those entertainers who hopscotch the world in private jets to go to global warming fund raising events just to look progressive or something. Pisses me off.

I think being able to sit in a bathtub full of $100 bills may help

That too. Damned charlatans.