Anders Behring Breivik

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

We are fully aware this is about you trying to distance yourself from a nutjob that you share views with. In that sense it is about you, yes.

Think about that for a second. If I wanted to distance myself, why would I start a thread about him? And where is your proof? Otherwise, you are just conjecturing about someone that you don't know. In any case, this is fruitless. I'm off to the real world of therapy.

We don't need to know you personally to know how intellectually dishonest you are, and your force-of-habit mad dancing skillz that would impress every Broadway theater star in history that seems to come out when you're in less-than-viable positions. We also don't need to know you IRL to recognize you have a messianic complex and that you're utterly a crock of bullshit.

I would apologize for letting the cat out of the bag, but that cat's been running around the neighborhood all week.

Why, is that my coat? Thank you.

 

[Gnomesmusher]

Looks pretty clear to me as well that the OP (and many other extremist right wingers) is trying to weasel his way out by dismissing Brevik as just a nutjob. Yet if he were a muslim (or even a liberal), they'd be all over it by claiming all muslims are just like him. The fact is that Brevik acted out of hatred. And we've all seen extreme hatred from certain right wing factions. The only distinction here is that the other extremists haven't acted on their extreme hatred.

 

[UltimateBlasphemer]

I don't know if it's because you guys have an extremely limited memory, reasoning capacity, or both, but I suspect a little bit of group thinking is going on here. Especially with all the out-of-nowhere new members that are trying get some credit by agreeing with you all.

We don't need to know you personally to know how intellectually dishonest you are...

Do you actually know what intellectual dishonesty is? In order to prove that I was intellectually dishonest, you would have to show that what I've said and what I actually believe don't match: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_dishonesty

On a forum, you only have access to what I type here. You do not have access to what I really believe. I'm sure you are familiar with trolls, right? I'm not saying that I am a troll, but the concept of the internet masking a person's true feelings is the same. This is what I mean when I say you don't "know" me.

...you're utterly a crock of bullshit.

If you keep insulting, I'll keep reporting.

--------------

Looks pretty clear to me as well that the OP (and many other extremist right wingers) is trying to weasel his way out by dismissing Brevik as just a nutjob.

Assertions, assertions. Consider my rebuttal:

If I wanted to distance myself, why would I start a thread about him? And where is your proof? Otherwise, you are just conjecturing about someone that you don't know.

And here's evidence against your assertion:

As for the "distancing" allegations, that is not my intent at all. In fact, I fully acknowledge that this is the thing that Breivik and I have in common. Although I'm not a Christian extremist, I can certainly agree with his hatred for humanity.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I don't know if it's because you guys have an extremely limited memory, reasoning capacity, or both, but I suspect a little bit of group thinking is going on here. Especially with all the out-of-nowhere new members that are trying get some credit by agreeing with you all.

That's right. Everyone in the world thinks you're a moron. Ergo, they're all out to get you.
Usually on this board, this equation turns out to be:
Behave like a moron = Being treated like a Moron = Being called a moron

We don't need to know you personally to know how intellectually dishonest you are...

Do you actually know what intellectual dishonesty is? In order to prove that I was intellectually dishonest, you would have to show that what I've said and what I actually believe don't match: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_dishonesty

You've actively advocated banning free speech and personal rights in the name of Free Speech and Personal Rights. You've been caught into your games of separating yourself from the object of horror, so you've tried to twist it and be all "Fuck you guys. I'm not trying to do that lolz see I admitted it so ur all wrong!"

The Game isn't out to make you lose - you're just a terrible player.
Oh. You lost the Game.

On a forum, you only have access to what I type here. You do not have access to what I really believe. I'm sure you are familiar with trolls, right? I'm not saying that I am a troll, but the concept of the internet masking a person's true feelings is the same. This is what I mean when I say you don't "know" me.

If you behave two different ways, that's no problem - but it would confirm your intellectual dishonesty if you say two different things on two fronts. But, from my experience with you, you're a backpeddling twat of a moron.

...you're utterly a crock of bullshit.

If you keep insulting, I'll keep reporting.

My mother should report me for calling her "Mom" then. I don't write things just for teh shitz and giggles, or to bounce my ideas off of - I only write things that I know, and from experience.
The truth is that I'm not that clever of a person. I'm not capable of scripting my own insults and jokes. The jokes and insults I run with practically write themselves.

--------------

Looks pretty clear to me as well that the OP (and many other extremist right wingers) is trying to weasel his way out by dismissing Brevik as just a nutjob.

Assertions, assertions. Consider my rebuttal:

If I wanted to distance myself, why would I start a thread about him? And where is your proof? Otherwise, you are just conjecturing about someone that you don't know.

And here's evidence against your assertion:

As for the "distancing" allegations, that is not my intent at all. In fact, I fully acknowledge that this is the thing that Breivik and I have in common. Although I'm not a Christian extremist, I can certainly agree with his hatred for humanity.

Translation:

Fuck... They got me there - how do I get out of this and still keep my ego intact? I know! I'll confirm it and be proud of that despicable distinction, then call them morons! HELL YEAH NO WAY THAT CAN SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!

This is my last post in this thread - my last one was supposed to be, but I had to clarify my actual stance of your current dancing.

 

[d3adlysin]

It is intellectually lazy to simply label Breivik as just a "psychotic" mass murderer. I know some of you will struggle with the paradigm shift in world views the knowledge that it isn't merely derange lunatics and religious extremists that kill people en masse or at all.

Do not fall into the trap of relying on the dictionary or common usage of the word "psychotic", because like many words (Theory anyone?) the dictionary often does not reflect the "jargon" of the relevant context... to say he is a psycho is to borrow from the clinical definition of psychopath, or psychosis. The DSM-IV-TR guidebook defines psychosis in two main broad terms - the first being the most restrictive definition which stipulates the subject must have a complete break from reality in which they have no insight to their delusions and hallucinations - Breivik has show no indications of a break from reality beyond taking a step beyond what most people would do, something military, militia, police and those charged with preforming state sanctioned executions do comparatively routinely - hi's political and cultural ideals are not far removed from members on this board INCLUDING his religious beliefs (as based on his dubbed manifesto).

The broader definition used goes beyond delusions and hallucination to include grossly disorganized speech, catatonic or grossly disorganized behaviour - again not evident in Breivikin, indeed he was the complete opposite.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hU_L1KUsNfIC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=clinical+definition+of+psychosis&source=bl&ots=DHEG3fTcjF&sig=dRYULeSTU5Avvm9bb6yFvg87_DI&hl=en&ei=_ocuTqe8CsntrAfGx7SNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=clinical%20definition%20of%20psychosis&f=false

His record does not reveal any of the common red flags of a psychopath - or any of the related disorders. He doesn't have a violent past, he doesn't have a history of aggression or even been categorized as a bully. He has recognized the horror of what he has done, and even express3e regret - though qualifies it as "what had to be done" (see media coverage of his statements).

What makes Breivikin terrifying is that he isn't a psycho, he isn't "delusional" - he wasn't a religious extremist. His ideals are disgusting, ignorant, and based on hate - but not insane (not if you want to use "insane" in its proper context).

But hey, I hear the sand is warm in the Northern Hemisphere this time of year... I hope it keeps your ears toasty.

Disclaimer: Just to be clear, my comments are preliminary notions based on what I know at the current time about Anders Behring Breivik - these position(s) will be subject to the potential for alteration, correction or abandonment in the light of new information.

I believe I have argued this, maybe you could define complete break from reality for me. As far as I can tell from skim here and there into books...Psychosis isn't just.. psychotic or not, there would be varying degrees and is it possible to slip too and from? Without subjection to tests, we won't know.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

It is intellectually lazy to simply label Breivik as just a "psychotic" mass murderer. I know some of you will struggle with the paradigm shift in world views the knowledge that it isn't merely derange lunatics and religious extremists that kill people en masse or at all.

Do not fall into the trap of relying on the dictionary or common usage of the word "psychotic", because like many words (Theory anyone?) the dictionary often does not reflect the "jargon" of the relevant context... to say he is a psycho is to borrow from the clinical definition of psychopath, or psychosis. The DSM-IV-TR guidebook defines psychosis in two main broad terms - the first being the most restrictive definition which stipulates the subject must have a complete break from reality in which they have no insight to their delusions and hallucinations - Breivik has show no indications of a break from reality beyond taking a step beyond what most people would do, something military, militia, police and those charged with preforming state sanctioned executions do comparatively routinely - hi's political and cultural ideals are not far removed from members on this board INCLUDING his religious beliefs (as based on his dubbed manifesto).

The broader definition used goes beyond delusions and hallucination to include grossly disorganized speech, catatonic or grossly disorganized behaviour - again not evident in Breivikin, indeed he was the complete opposite.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hU_L1KUsNfIC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=clinical+definition+of+psychosis&source=bl&ots=DHEG3fTcjF&sig=dRYULeSTU5Avvm9bb6yFvg87_DI&hl=en&ei=_ocuTqe8CsntrAfGx7SNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=clinical%20definition%20of%20psychosis&f=false

His record does not reveal any of the common red flags of a psychopath - or any of the related disorders. He doesn't have a violent past, he doesn't have a history of aggression or even been categorized as a bully. He has recognized the horror of what he has done, and even express3e regret - though qualifies it as "what had to be done" (see media coverage of his statements).

What makes Breivikin terrifying is that he isn't a psycho, he isn't "delusional" - he wasn't a religious extremist. His ideals are disgusting, ignorant, and based on hate - but not insane (not if you want to use "insane" in its proper context).

But hey, I hear the sand is warm in the Northern Hemisphere this time of year... I hope it keeps your ears toasty.

Disclaimer: Just to be clear, my comments are preliminary notions based on what I know at the current time about Anders Behring Breivik - these position(s) will be subject to the potential for alteration, correction or abandonment in the light of new information.

I believe I have argued this, maybe you could define complete break from reality for me. As far as I can tell from skim here and there into books...Psychosis isn't just.. psychotic or not, there would be varying degrees and is it possible to slip too and from? Without subjection to tests, we won't know.

The answers to your questions are all in my original post (the one you quoted).

 

[kenandkids]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-27-2011/in-the-name-of-the-fodder

 

[UltimateBlasphemer]

Holy crap. I think this is pretty relevant. It is highly likely that Brevik will be spending 21 years in these rather pleasant correctional facilities: Luxurious prison in Norway.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Holy crap. I think this is pretty relevant. It is highly likely that Brevik will be spending 21 years in these rather pleasant correctional facilities: Luxurious prison in Norway.

>The Daily Mail

I would get more news value if someone printed me out a copy of the Daily Prophet and cited it as a source.
...
In other news, I think I just caught J. K. Rowling's allegorical humor.

>.>

If this is a Poe, then well done.

 

[Independent Vision]

Holy crap. I think this is pretty relevant. It is highly likely that Brevik will be spending 21 years in these rather pleasant correctional facilities: Luxurious prison in Norway.

:lol: That's pretty much how most rooms in long term prison looks like in Scandinavia these days. I don't know why that would be relevant. How did you expect he would be kept?

 

[kenandkids]

Holy crap. I think this is pretty relevant. It is highly likely that Brevik will be spending 21 years in these rather pleasant correctional facilities: Luxurious prison in Norway.

:lol: That's pretty much how most rooms in long term prison looks like in Scandinavia these days. I don't know why that would be relevant. How did you expect he would be kept?

What the fuck? That's not a prison, it's a freaking spa/retreat!



American prison:

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

:lol: That's pretty much how most rooms in long term prison looks like in Scandinavia these days. I don't know why that would be relevant. How did you expect he would be kept?

What the fuck? That's not a prison, it's a freaking spa/retreat!



American prison:

And on average, who has lower crime rates (with the exception of Breivik who has probably fucked their murder average for the year).

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

And on average, who has lower crime rates (with the exception of Breivik who has probably fucked their murder average for the year).

I would kill to live there.

And I think that it's 21 years per murder.

 

[Independent Vision]

What the fuck? That's not a prison, it's a freaking spa/retreat!

Size and amount of furniture is pretty standard for a Scandinavian prison, some cells are smaller, of coarse. But most of them keep around that size as far as I know.

It is not a spa/retreat.

You're supposed to be incarcerated to protect society from you, and as a punishment, no? Being locked up it doesn't matter how horrible or good conditions are. You're still deprived of your freedom. Not only that but Scandinavian countries tend to be a little more concerned with rehabilitating criminals than the US correctional system is. And per capita there seems to be less violent crimes in Scandinavian countries.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why I have absolutely no problem with Scandinavian jail cells being neat, tidy and livable. Most of them having to do with the fact that I think treating criminals like crap isn't going to help anyone come out of jail a better person. They're more likely to come out a more hardened criminal than when they went in.

 

[Independent Vision]

And I think that it's 21 years per murder.

Ehm, no. That's 21 years. However they can choose to detain you another 5 years if they deem you're still a danger to society, and continue to do so for the rest of your life... rumors has it they want to try and charge him with crimes against humanity to get around that.

So, yeah. Not 21 years per murder, just... 21 years.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

And I think that it's 21 years per murder.

Ehm, no. That's 21 years. However they can choose to detain you another 5 years if they deem you're still a danger to society, and continue to do so for the rest of your life... rumors has it they want to try and charge him with crimes against humanity to get around that.

So, yeah. Not 21 years per murder, just... 21 years.

...

What. The. Fuck.

NORWAY
Y U SO SOFT?!

That's one thing I enjoy about America. The punishment actually fits the crime.

:I

Noose that man.

 

[Independent Vision]

...

What. The. Fuck.

NORWAY
Y U SO SOFT?!

That's one thing I enjoy about America. The punishment actually fits the crime.

:I

Noose that man.

1. They're not soft. He won't get out that early, as I said, they can add 5 more years to it... but the standard is 21 years.

2. The punishment in America rarely fits the crime.

3. Noosing him would be dumb. State sanctioned murder, never a smart idea. AND, he might be able to be rehabilitated enough to contribute to humanity, even if it is from a jail cell.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

1. They're not soft. He won't get out that early, as I said, they can add 5 more years to it... but the standard is 21 years.

2. The punishment in America rarely fits the crime.

3. Noosing him would be dumb. State sanctioned murder, never a smart idea. AND, he might be able to be rehabilitated enough to contribute to humanity, even if it is from a jail cell.

Bomb a government building and shoot up a Youth Camp.
Go to a resort for 21 years.

Cool. Got it.

BTW Sociopaths who intentionally plot and scheme a plot of sound mind don't get better through rehab.
>.>

And no - the punishment fits the crime in a generalized sense. You might not think that when you're arguing against it, or if you're subject to it's punishments, but I would think that getting jail time at ALL would be too much.

 

[kenandkids]

I was actually kidding about it being a spa/retreat. Kinda like the old Crocodile Dundee quip "'at's not a knife, this is a knife!"

While I agree that American justice rarely meets a proper punishment to a crime, erring on the side of WAY too much punishment for minor crimes, 21 years is way too fucking little. 21 years per victim under 18 and 15 for every victim over would be better, that man needs never to see freedom again.

 

[UltimateBlasphemer]

Size and amount of furniture is pretty standard for a Scandinavian prison, some cells are smaller, of coarse. But most of them keep around that size as far as I know.

It is not a spa/retreat.

You're supposed to be incarcerated to protect society from you, and as a punishment, no? Being locked up it doesn't matter how horrible or good conditions are. You're still deprived of your freedom. Not only that but Scandinavian countries tend to be a little more concerned with rehabilitating criminals than the US correctional system is. And per capita there seems to be less violent crimes in Scandinavian countries.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why I have absolutely no problem with Scandinavian jail cells being neat, tidy and livable. Most of them having to do with the fact that I think treating criminals like crap isn't going to help anyone come out of jail a better person. They're more likely to come out a more hardened criminal than when they went in.

America is pretty screwed up when it comes to incarceration and capital punishment, and the numbers don't lie. I'm inclined to agree, even though it doesn't sit well with me.

Still, do they need a freaking flat-screen TV and cozy "passion" rooms for their visitors?