And my parents still don't know....

[lrkun]

Greetings,

Nyna, I hadn't been to church since I was a teenager: I'd asked a priest in class - in Ireland, the Church (used to) runs education - "If going to church didn't mean anything to you, should you go?" He said, "If it doesn't mean anything to you, then, don't go!". So, I stopped going. My dad wasn't happy about my not going - he asked me why I wouldn't go to church. I told him, "If God's everywhere - including in us - why look for him in a building?" He couldn't answer that!

That was my genuine reason for not going - since then, I've moved to an agnostic position on God. I'm not suggesting that you lie to your mother, but you might consider it a possible starting point, if you wish, after you're "independent".

Kindest regards,

James

Nyna, what Dragan suggests is a good position to take. It's safe, until you're absolutely independent.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Thanks, Irkun, for the vote of confidence.

However, I was going to suggest she wait until she's independent ... although, it may prove a reasonable way to avoid confrontation with members of her family until then.

Controversialize, welcome to LoR!

I'd caution against advising Nyna questioning the Bible and her family's beliefs - they might take that as a mission to "save" her, which can only lead to confrontation.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[lrkun]

Greetings,

Thanks, Irkun, for the vote of confidence.

However, I was going to suggest she wait until she's independent ... although, it may prove a reasonable way to avoid confrontation with members of her family until then.

Controversialize, welcome to LoR!

I'd caution against advising Nyna questioning the Bible and her family's beliefs - they might take that as a mission to "save" her, which can only lead to confrontation.

Kindest regards,

James

I see, my statement does show ambiguity. I meant to say that when she has work and living by herself, if she doesn't want the hassle of going to church or doing religious rituals, she can use your statement, to paraphrase, god is in me, god is everywhere, therefore everything I do is an act of worshiping god. However, I don't advocate lying to that point, but if it doesn't destroy her family relations, then I think it's something she can choose as an option.

 

[Nyna]

For a moment, I thought you're in a muslim family, coz of your mention about arabic classes. Phew, at least that's not the case. And I chuckled at your part about your sister: "It's not chance! Jesus saved me! Oh I love you Jesus! *blinks eyes*"

First off, you've done the right thing in seeking help before you do something dramatic. Religion is still a big issue in this world, and while it's great that you wish to say goodbye to it, one wrong move and you could end up being said goodbye to. I don't mean to scare you but really, you could, depending on what kind of people you're dealing with.

Consider yourself lucky to be living in the world today, because once you're able to stand on your own feet, no-one, not even your parents can bring you down. Think about what it would have been like a couple hundred years ago, you'd probably be burned to stake as a witch. Hehe.

I understand you're still under the care of your parents, so it's best to lay low and sometimes pretend to do things. Especially if your life or living could be in danger for speaking out your position. Keep working on your future, to be able to stand on your own. Study well and get a job. Know the laws of your country (I hope you're not in a muslim country or something). In most secular countries, once you're of a certain legal age, you're free to leave your parents' home and find a place elsewhere, regardless of your income or marital status. Your parents may try to talk you out of that, but a good knowledge of the law books will come in as a strength (I speak from experience). Finally, when you're ready, just find a new place to stay and leave your parents' home.

But whatever you do, never agree to an arranged marriage. Your parents are likely to find the most orthodox guy, and then you're doomed for life with a new parent under the title "husband." Find your own loving, caring atheist husband. If you can't get your parents to agree, run away and get married elsewhere. I know that must be the craziest advice, but sometimes you have to do crazy things to have the life you want.

I usually consider it a hopeless attempt to the revive the older generations from their theistic views and bring them to the light of knowledge, but if your parents by any chance happen to be open-minded, you can attack from within. Instead of getting repelled from bible and all those christian stuff, take deep interest in them and start studying them in great detail. Then question your parents on them, it will force them to study it as well. Mainly you should focus on what's contradictory in the bible, especially what contradicts morality. If God is the perfect moral example, everything he does has to be a moral action. (But watch out when you do this, because the moment they tell you to just accept stuff without questioning them, you'll know they're close minded and they can never be revived.)

One final note: I don't know how crazy your parents can get, but I had experience with certain parents locking up their own adult daughter in the house so that she doesn't leave, even though she's legally allowed to leave home and stay elsewhere. So, always move your plans with caution. If you think your parents can't get so crazy, think twice because that daughter was wrong, and you could be too. You may have to plan everything in secret then run away to your new place, and finally drop them a letter. Do mention about the laws allowing you to leave home, so that they don't attempt to do kidnapping (that almost happened to the above-mentioned daughter too).

I really love this response and I wish that my circumstances were as romantic as you thought: Young egyptian woman, second guessing her faith while under the grip of her prominent parents. betrothed to a two-faced husband. Needing a way out. But no, I'm just a black, american 22 year old who grew up in a household where God reins. I take arabic because it's a beautiful language. Though it's deeply embedded in religious culture, I don't mind say Alla Hamdu Lillah (Praise be to God) as a greeting. I've always liked learning new things and specifically went for things that others rarely went for. Like violin and guitar (rock on) instead of drums or piano (2 very popular choices for musical blacks). I swam for years. I took Ballet and Toe dance instead of "modern" or "contemporary" (but damn my flat feet). And I didn't care much for writing poetry. Reading what others had to say and critiquing it was much more fun (I aim to be an editor). And, yes, I've been called weird on several occasions for being different and not know the name of a single basketball or football player beyond Michael Jordan.

Spanish was out because everyone is saying "Learn spanish!". It was either going to be Russian, German, or Arabic. I fell in love with arabic script. Anyways, I just wanted to put your fears at rest. I am living in free country and I have a loving agnostic boyfriend. Even if shyt were to hit the fan, I know he'd have my back.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

I really love this response and I wish that my circumstances were as romantic as you thought: Young egyptian woman, second guessing her faith while under the grip of her prominent parents. betrothed to a two-faced husband. Needing a way out. But no, I'm just a black, american 22 year old who grew up in a household where God reins.

Too late - he's already parachuted into the Middle East... :lol:

Kindest regards,

James

 

[FaithlessThinker]

I really love this response and I wish that my circumstances were as romantic as you thought: Young egyptian woman, second guessing her faith while under the grip of her prominent parents. betrothed to a two-faced husband. Needing a way out. But no, I'm just a black, american 22 year old who grew up in a household where God reins. I take arabic because it's a beautiful language. Though it's deeply embedded in religious culture, I don't mind say Alla Hamdu Lillah (Praise be to God) as a greeting. I've always liked learning new things and specifically went for things that others rarely went for. Like violin and guitar (rock on) instead of drums or piano (2 very popular choices for musical blacks). I swam for years. I took Ballet and Toe dance instead of "modern" or "contemporary" (but damn my flat feet). And I didn't care much for writing poetry. Reading what others had to say and critiquing it was much more fun (I aim to be an editor). And, yes, I've been called weird on several occasions for being different and not know the name of a single basketball or football player beyond Michael Jordan.

Spanish was out because everyone is saying "Learn spanish!". It was either going to be Russian, German, or Arabic. I fell in love with arabic script. Anyways, I just wanted to put your fears at rest. I am living in free country and I have a loving agnostic boyfriend. Even if shyt were to hit the fan, I know he'd have my back.

Wow, you're a unique person who loves to do what no one else is doing.

I hope you're being sarcastic because being a young egyptian woman under grip of her prominent parents, betrothed to a two-faced husband is far from romantic!

It's good that you learn arabic, but just be careful not to fall into the hands of muslim converters. The perception that arabic language, art, etc is beautiful is widely used by them to make you feel that islam is beautiful as well. How far that is from the truth!

In what way does god reign in your household?

 

[Nyna]

I really love this response and I wish that my circumstances were as romantic as you thought: Young egyptian woman, second guessing her faith while under the grip of her prominent parents. betrothed to a two-faced husband. Needing a way out. But no, I'm just a black, american 22 year old who grew up in a household where God reins. I take arabic because it's a beautiful language. Though it's deeply embedded in religious culture, I don't mind say Alla Hamdu Lillah (Praise be to God) as a greeting. I've always liked learning new things and specifically went for things that others rarely went for. Like violin and guitar (rock on) instead of drums or piano (2 very popular choices for musical blacks). I swam for years. I took Ballet and Toe dance instead of "modern" or "contemporary" (but damn my flat feet). And I didn't care much for writing poetry. Reading what others had to say and critiquing it was much more fun (I aim to be an editor). And, yes, I've been called weird on several occasions for being different and not know the name of a single basketball or football player beyond Michael Jordan.

Spanish was out because everyone is saying "Learn spanish!". It was either going to be Russian, German, or Arabic. I fell in love with arabic script. Anyways, I just wanted to put your fears at rest. I am living in free country and I have a loving agnostic boyfriend. Even if shyt were to hit the fan, I know he'd have my back.

Wow, you're a unique person who loves to do what no one else is doing.

I hope you're being sarcastic because being a young egyptian woman under grip of her prominent parents, betrothed to a two-faced husband is far from romantic!

It's good that you learn arabic, but just be careful not to fall into the hands of muslim converters. The perception that arabic language, art, etc is beautiful is widely used by them to make you feel that islam is beautiful as well. How far that is from the truth!

In what way does god reign in your household?

Oh the usual ways. When you first enter the doorway, there is a stain-glass ornament hanging from the window that reads either "In this house, we serve the lord" or "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord": one or the other. Inside is a very expensive bible laying on a glass curio. It's propped up by a really nice wooden wedge and the bible is open to some verse that is suppose to mean something. Mom use to tell me to go to it and turn to specific scriptures. I've forgotten which scripture it was but a very popular one I was often told to flip to was "You don't work, you don't eat"(Paraphrasing). It was an attempt my parents made to help me realize the importance of my chores. In larger curios, there are angels EVERYWHERE. Black angels. Mom doesn't get white angels. She's into the black figurines. The house screams proud (ugh), black, god-fearing household. And during christmas? Black Santas (Mrs. Claus, too)! Everywhere! On the door, in the window, on tables. And on the ornaments on the tree, there's....that's right...more black angels. And we don't use a star at the top. We use a black lady-angel. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful. But it's too...I dunno the word. And I think there's a picture of black jesus somewhere too, though I don't quite remember. Maybe not.

And I was serious about the romantic part because, if my description were a book, it'd probably make you lay back and sigh and say "awesome" because you know at the end, she triumphs.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

Oh the usual ways. When you first enter the doorway, there is a stain-glass ornament hanging from the window that reads either "In this house, we serve the lord" or "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord": one or the other. Inside is a very expensive bible laying on a glass curio. It's propped up by a really nice wooden wedge and the bible is open to some verse that is suppose to mean something. Mom use to tell me to go to it and turn to specific scriptures. I've forgotten which scripture it was but a very popular one I was often told to flip to was "You don't work, you don't eat"(Paraphrasing). It was an attempt my parents made to help me realize the importance of my chores. In larger curios, there are angels EVERYWHERE. Black angels. Mom doesn't get white angels. She's into the black figurines. The house screams proud (ugh), black, god-fearing household. And during christmas? Black Santas (Mrs. Claus, too)! Everywhere! On the door, in the window, on tables. And on the ornaments on the tree, there's....that's right...more black angels. And we don't use a star at the top. We use a black lady-angel. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful. But it's too...I dunno the word. And I think there's a picture of black jesus somewhere too, though I don't quite remember. Maybe not.

I almost blacked out reading that. :lol: Just kidding. But really, that's a lot of black.

Well I hope you do the right thing, whatever you have decided to do. I wish you all the best. If you need help, remember that we're all here to support you.

 

[Nyna]

Oh the usual ways. When you first enter the doorway, there is a stain-glass ornament hanging from the window that reads either "In this house, we serve the lord" or "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord": one or the other. Inside is a very expensive bible laying on a glass curio. It's propped up by a really nice wooden wedge and the bible is open to some verse that is suppose to mean something. Mom use to tell me to go to it and turn to specific scriptures. I've forgotten which scripture it was but a very popular one I was often told to flip to was "You don't work, you don't eat"(Paraphrasing). It was an attempt my parents made to help me realize the importance of my chores. In larger curios, there are angels EVERYWHERE. Black angels. Mom doesn't get white angels. She's into the black figurines. The house screams proud (ugh), black, god-fearing household. And during christmas? Black Santas (Mrs. Claus, too)! Everywhere! On the door, in the window, on tables. And on the ornaments on the tree, there's....that's right...more black angels. And we don't use a star at the top. We use a black lady-angel. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful. But it's too...I dunno the word. And I think there's a picture of black jesus somewhere too, though I don't quite remember. Maybe not.

I almost blacked out reading that. :lol: Just kidding. But really, that's a lot of black.

Well I hope you do the right thing, whatever you have decided to do. I wish you all the best. If you need help, remember that we're all here to support you.

You know, I read it over and it 'is' really funny. I'm going to hold off on telling them the truth until I'm independent.

 

[Don-Sama]

jup better hold on, but do question your moms views a lill bit. you might want to open the door a bit so that she doesn't gets a heart attack when you finally storm out.

ps, no black snow flakes?

 

[Nyna]

ps, no black snow flakes?




My coworkers got a kick out of that, heh.

 

[Yfelsung]

Here's a question: Do you think your parents worthy of your respect and love if they would disown their own child just because their child took a different spiritual/antispiritual path?

Just speaking personally, of course, if my parents ever disowned me for being me, I wouldn't lose my sleep over it.

 

[lrkun]

Here's a question: Do you think your parents worthy of your respect and love if they would disown their own child just because their child took a different spiritual/antispiritual path?

Just speaking personally, of course, if my parents ever disowned me for being me, I wouldn't lose my sleep over it.

Not everyone's as strong as you.

 

[Yfelsung]

Here's a question: Do you think your parents worthy of your respect and love if they would disown their own child just because their child took a different spiritual/antispiritual path?

Just speaking personally, of course, if my parents ever disowned me for being me, I wouldn't lose my sleep over it.

Not everyone's as strong as you.

Within every human being is the strength to conquer all if only they look for it.

 

[lrkun]

Within every human being is the strength to conquer all if only they look for it.

I agree. It's something most people need to learn, because if they didn't, they'd give up on this life or end up depressed. In the words of my favorite holy man, unlike me, they became a statistic.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Within every human being is the strength to conquer all if only they look for it.

Inspirational nonsense, but still nonsense. Strength needs to grow. Strength does not meaning having the guts to recklessly dive into the deep end.

 

[Tylzen]

It always makes me a bit sad, reading about how some people especially in America has to conceal their true nature, be it homosexuality or lack of belief.
I never myself had to deal with coming out, I am 3rd gen. non-religious skeptic and in Denmark being non-religious is not a big of a deal.

But I would agree with the majority here, and say, work towards independence, and then come clean.
Because your parents would most likely be able to make your life literally a living hell.

Hang on
Remember you got this community to unload your frustrations.

 

[Nyna]

Here's a question: Do you think your parents worthy of your respect and love if they would disown their own child just because their child took a different spiritual/antispiritual path?

Just speaking personally, of course, if my parents ever disowned me for being me, I wouldn't lose my sleep over it.

I'm actually not afraid of being disowned. I don't even think they'd cut me off financially. They'd hold up their end and pay for college and give me 6 months after graduation to truly get on my feet. But they wouldn't be generous. If I had to buy a new set of tires for my car because of damage, I dunno how crazy they'd be about helping me out there. Or if I was having a personal crisis, they'd be the last people to talk to. They'd tell me to "pray...oh wait...You don't believe in God anymore. Yea you're screwed". Alright, they wouldn't be so heartless. They'd let me visit them and we'd probably still have a decent time together. What I'm dreading is them constantly trying to convert me back to Christianity. I know that eventually, after the initial shock, they'll stop being outrageous. But then they'd try to inject God into every single conversation. And if anything positive happened to me (I get good grades or avoid some sort of catastrophe, like a certain sister) they probably wouldn't hesitate to tell me how blessed I am and extend their bewilderment as to why I don't see the "work of the lord" all around me.

tl;dr- They'd respect my decision. They just wouldn't like it. My sister may be a different story but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. And if she chooses to act like a child then, while I'll love her, she wouldn't indeed lose my respect.

 

[Yfelsung]

If your parents try to convert you, just simply say "I am willing to consider the existence of God if you could provide me with some objective evidence that we could have tested in a laboratory. If this evidence is satisfactory, I would likely then believe this God character is real."

All you have to do is outline your willingness to believe their side if they can provide the evidence. The nice thing about this too is that it could get them realizing that there really is no evidence for God.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

All you have to do is outline your willingness to believe their side if they can provide the evidence. The nice thing about this too is that it could get them realizing that there really is no evidence for God.

It won't. Believe me, if you're that deep in, it won't get you to realize there's no evidence. The idea will come up and be forgotten right away.