Amniote phylogeny - Turtles & diapsids

[PhilNEvo]

I've been trying, for a long time, to figure out where turtles fit within a phylogeny of tetrapods, but I see quite disconcordant data, so I was interested in if anyone could explain why the data is disconcordant and where turtles should fit.

Example:"
- Morphology generally has a monophyletic Lepidosauria and Archosauria

- Full mtDNA sequence supports a monophyletic Lepidosauria and the Testudines as a sister-group to Archosaurs

- Chromosome morphology supports an ancient relationship between tuatara and Testudines to the exclusion of the Squamata

- Sperm morphology supports a tuatara and turtle relationship to the exclusion of squamata

- FoxG1 and 28S nuclear gene analyses supports diapsid"

From "Chromosomes, Nuclear DNA and the phylogenetic placement within the Reptilia of Sphenodon (Tuatara)" By Thomas Bruce Norris 2007 Thesis.

 

[AronRa]

Did you see what I wrote about testudine phylogeny in my first thread to Bob Enyart?

 

[PhilNEvo]

Did you see what I wrote about testudine phylogeny in my first thread to Bob Enyart?

I've read it now, and the paper seemed to suggest the closest relationship between archosaurs and turtles, which certainly answers my first question. Though I'm still interested in how well established this is, since in the paper you cite yourself, they also write "Additionally, a recent combined analysis including morphological and molecular data also concluded that turtles are outside Diapsida (Lee et al. 2008)."

Further, I'm interested in why or how these discrepancies happen, but I guess that'll have to wait till we gain more knowledge?

 

[Squawk]

Further, I'm interested in why or how these discrepancies happen, but I guess that'll have to wait till we gain more knowledge?

why oh why oh why oh why can't this be the mantra taught to kids in school.