American Morality

[RichardMNixon]

From the Colbert Report last week, rather depressing.

Suicide is worse than the death penalty? How does that make any sense? And gay marriage? And 30% of Americans think divorce is morally wrong? Ugh.

Also surprised to see the abortion numbers. Does pro-life outweight pro-choice, or does it suggest a substantial number of pro-choicers still think it's wrong?

The only shimmer of hope I saw in this was that stem-cell research was >50%.

 

[DeusExNihilum]

Those figures are quite disturbing, but unsurprising considering the religiosity of America.

To offer an answer to your pro-choice question; Yes I think that is the case. I have never met someone who is pro-life AND believes that abortion is morally acceptable...but i've met a whole bunch of people (religious people, mainly) who are pro-choice but think that abortion is immoral. Generally, from my experience, Socially liberal Religious people tend to understand the concept of rights etc but, because of their religion, find it personally morally unacceptable.

 

[Ekkoe]

Some I find very understandable. I don,´t think divorce should be considered MORALLY wrong. Surely, it,´s a bad thing and it should be avoided, but if two people have grown apart or don,´t love each other anymore, there shouldn,´t be some moral compass telling them they should stay together.

However, gay marriage? And I still find it strange that doctor assisted suicide is so strongly opposed (especially considering the support for death penalty).

 

[Ilikemustard]

I don't understand the thought processes of these people, I really don't.

I bet most of them claim abortion is immoral because it is destroying the possibility of human life. Yet they condone the death penalty? Ugh.

 

[Fictionarious]

And most of them would say about us,
"I bet most of them claim the death penalty is immoral because it's murder, yet they condone the murder of babies?"

Their morality, as cognitive linguist George Lakoff argues here http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html#MORALPATH and elsewhere, is empirically pathological. Love this stuff.

 

[Doghouse]

You can get any answer you like if you ask the right question.

I mean look at how it is phrased, they don't use right and wrong, they use 'acceptable' and 'wrong'. That in itself loads the question, because it makes those issues look like something that has to be tolerated, as though they are inherently wrong. There's no positive answer if you see what I mean, you've basically got a choice between 'Bad' and 'Meh'. A better way to ask these questions, though it may not have provided the desired answers, would have been one of those questionnaires where you get the statement and rate how much you agree with it, or how little.

The fact is that unlike proper science, opinion polls are an art. They are a device to leverage a certain view and they can be powerful. The right wing media use them a lot to demonstrate how stupid people are in order to make folks angry or make outlandish ideas appear more normal than they really are. The fact that folks here are discussing this poll and finding it, to quote, 'depressing' is indicative of the sort of power polls have. For example I could cook up a poll, round up a sample, and then run a story in a newspaper that tells the world that 80% of Immigrants don't know when WW1 was, or that school leavers can't spell, or that 60% of Muslims thought that 9/11 was a brilliant way to pre-emptively deny King Kong a place to hide out.

In short, don't trust polls, they are crap.

If you want to get really good, scientific polling data, volunteer to help out during a general/presidential election and get stuck into the campaign, then try to get some time with the data the campaign managers get, because that is the good stuff. Really powerful, mate of mine helped Labour hold Hammersmith in the last election and he did it by just crunching good poll data and using that to help direct the strategy. It's like some kind of Matrix thing, seeing what people want, what they don't want, even what they themselves don't know what they want or don't want, all there in the numbers.

This stuff here, that gets published in the media? This is nothing, less than worthless, dishonest.

 

[Jaguar]

On the list:

1.- I have nothing against the concept of divorce. Sometimes it's better to cut all ties than hanging from false hope threads. I really think the bad moral view on divorce steems from the religious conservative who value marriage so highly, or so they say. But I think it is a basic human right to be able to say "I made a mistake, and want to take another way", even if that is marriage. The issue is more complicated with kids in the middle, and in this case, it should be considered on a case by case basis, but that for the convinience, not the morality of the divorce.
2.- I am strongly against death penalty. Here in México, the top crime you can commit is treason to the coutry and the penalty for that is loss of citizenship and exile. I think the entire purpose of creating a legal system was to preserve and protect the life of the members of said society. Besides, on what grounds does anyone justificate denial of individual right to kill but endorse the state's right to kill.
3.- I wouldn't say fur is immoral. I think is cruel, and a bit tasteless, but nothing to really worry about; and certainly not something to legislate with the intent of prohibition. I mean, getting really ethical, fur clothing is as bad as leather shoes and belts, and raising cattle and poultry for eating.
4.- I don't think gambling is immoral. I think it's stupid and pointlessly ridiculous, but not immoral.
5.- I am on favor of stem cell research, it might save some lives, it might help get rid some of our most urging or serious medical problems.
6.- If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have a sex life at all, no way I'm against that. Joking aside, I think it's ultimately good. A couple needs to have some previous endeavors in sex, both with each other and with other people. A healthy sexual relationship is still part of a healthy relationship as a whole.
7.- I acknowledge that can be cruel, but I guess I have to go with it. If it wasn't for that we would have to experiment on humans all the time and that would be even worse. Ethically, it could be the right thing, but not humanly.
8.- I don't that is some kind of moral principle, I call that broken old condom. Ultimately, no, I mean, there are plenty of divorced marriages or alcoholic daddies and pill gulping mommies in married couples like to effectivly make a case against a baby out of wedlock.
9.- I have absolutely nothing against lesbians or gays. They have their taste, I have mines. I might not agree with them in sexual preferences but they really make no harm to anyone.
10.- Assisted suicide is something I am for. Really, the day my brain stops working is the last day I want to live. And if any other people want it, who is it hurting really?
11.- This one is complicated but here is the deal. I am against abortion because I think of it as unfair. I mean, it's like that teacher who hated you and failed you without letting you present the test: you don't give a kid the chance to live. But, my negative opinion on it should not be a prohibitionary law for everyone else. Plus, I am a guy, and I really think this is something we should let women decide.
12.- I honestly don't see the wrong in that.
13.- As with abortion, I don't like that concept, and personally I wouldn't participate in such a relationship, but if others want to do it, go ahead.
14.- Now, that is something I do dislike. Maybe I don't have any rational argument agains it, but I always offer fidelity to my girl, and I expect the same in return. Plus, I actually had a girlfriend cheat on me once and it hurt like hell. So, I don't know wether to consider it moral or not, I just know it's not nice.

- The Jaguar