Am I in the right place?

[Sparhafoc]

Dear League of Reason peoples...

I would like to introduce myself, but I would also like to save you, me, and everyone's all-too-finite time by checking first whether I've found the right place or no.

I live in a country which doesn't speak my birth-language, and while I can speak their language to an adequate degree, I find that they are culturally disinterested in topics on which I personally thrive.

I have a boner for reason, rationality, introspection, and admire in other people a general understanding that while ego sometimes gets shit done and can't wholly be negated, actually there are vastly more interesting and primal things about our nature, and the nature of nature which should unquestionably take precedence.

I only want to learn, to know shit about both the outside world and what makes me tick - even if it's just learning from myself by communicating my ideas better (thereby needing to understand them comprehensively) or, even better, by discovering that the way I think is stupid, wrong, or completely misdirected.

I want to find a discussion group which facilitates such an environment. There used to be one. It is long, long gone.

Is it here?

Gratefully,
Sparhafoc

 

[Gnug215]

Dear League of Reason peoples...

I would like to introduce myself, but I would also like to save you, me, and everyone's all-too-finite time by checking first whether I've found the right place or no.

I live in a country which doesn't speak my birth-language, and while I can speak their language to an adequate degree, I find that they are culturally disinterested in topics on which I personally thrive.

I have a boner for reason, rationality, introspection, and admire in other people a general understanding that while ego sometimes gets shit done and can't wholly be negated, actually there are vastly more interesting and primal things about our nature, and the nature of nature which should unquestionably take precedence.

I only want to learn, to know shit about both the outside world and what makes me tick - even if it's just learning from myself by communicating my ideas better (thereby needing to understand them comprehensively) or, even better, by discovering that the way I think is stupid, wrong, or completely misdirected.

I want to find a discussion group which facilitates such an environment. There used to be one. It is long, long gone.

Is it here?

Gratefully,
Sparhafoc

Welcome aboard, Sparhafoc

Is this the right place?

No, the League of Reason is always the wrong place, for everything!

But hey, that means no pressure, right?

That said, people with reason-boners are always welcome.

I'm really intrigued to hear more about the cultural "clash" you are living through, if you don't mind sharing more about that.
So if I may ask, which country are you originally from, and where do you live now? And what are those topics that interests you but not them?

I also live in a country that I'm not native to, but I find myself thriving here more than at my "home".


Anyway, I hope you'll enjoy your stay here!

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Welcome to LoR, Sparhafoc!

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Sparhafoc]

Thanks James and Gnug215

I'm really intrigued to hear more about the cultural "clash" you are living through, if you don't mind sharing more about that.
So if I may ask, which country are you originally from, and where do you live now? And what are those topics that interests you but not them?

I also live in a country that I'm not native to, but I find myself thriving here more than at my "home".

I am from the UK and live in SE Asia.

There's not really a cultural clash in the typical sense of the word as I've lived here for 1/3 of my life. I would unequivocally say I've thrived here too - had many more vocational opportunities than I would have back home.

Rather, there's just no interest in skeptical or critical thinking here. Culturally, people are inculcated to lend credence to authority, to put group-think over actual thought, to exhibit little to no curiosity in the world around them other than the manufactured human world of showbiz, money, and conspicuous consumption.

This is, of course, not to say that everyone here's stupid. I've got some very intelligent friends who are academics, who are more educationally qualified than me, but who similarly exhibit essentially no interest in other than the mundane. An example would be of a very intelligent friend of mine responding to my question about what they thought about how the universe came to be with a blank dismissal of 'no one knows, it's a stupid question' - not so much as one Planck length of interest or curiosity. It's a bit depressing sometimes.

I've got lots of friends in the UK who are, essentially, not educated but with vastly more interest, curiosity, and critical thinking skills. Last time I went back a couple of years ago, I went out to the woods with a friend who had dropped out of school at 16, and we spent the day recording wildlife for a conservation project, and collecting edible herbs, roots, mushrooms and the like. It was a glorious day of learning for me. I'd be happiest spending every day like that - not in the woods - but finding out shit I otherwise would never have known I didn't know.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[Gnug215]

I am from the UK and live in SE Asia.

There's not really a cultural clash in the typical sense of the word as I've lived here for 1/3 of my life. I would unequivocally say I've thrived here too - had many more vocational opportunities than I would have back home.

Rather, there's just no interest in skeptical or critical thinking here. Culturally, people are inculcated to lend credence to authority, to put group-think over actual thought, to exhibit little to no curiosity in the world around them other than the manufactured human world of showbiz, money, and conspicuous consumption.

This is, of course, not to say that everyone here's stupid. I've got some very intelligent friends who are academics, who are more educationally qualified than me, but who similarly exhibit essentially no interest in other than the mundane. An example would be of a very intelligent friend of mine responding to my question about what they thought about how the universe came to be with a blank dismissal of 'no one knows, it's a stupid question' - not so much as one Planck length of interest or curiosity. It's a bit depressing sometimes.

I've got lots of friends in the UK who are, essentially, not educated but with vastly more interest, curiosity, and critical thinking skills. Last time I went back a couple of years ago, I went out to the woods with a friend who had dropped out of school at 16, and we spent the day recording wildlife for a conservation project, and collecting edible herbs, roots, mushrooms and the like. It was a glorious day of learning for me. I'd be happiest spending every day like that - not in the woods - but finding out shit I otherwise would never have known I didn't know.

Thanks for the welcome.

Interesting.

I think I've always had the (granted, fairly unfounded and prejudiced) impression that SE Asian societies were in general very respectful of authority, but I didn't know it ran this deep.

Weird stuff.

I'm not sure how free-thinking you'll find us here at LoR, since when it comes to science, we do seem to place a lot of trust in that particular authority, but I do like to think we have a pretty keen critical eye.

Although, I can't really be sure of that...

Self-doubt. I deem it a virtue and a curse at the same time.

 

[Sparhafoc]

[
I'm not sure how free-thinking you'll find us here at LoR, since when it comes to science, we do seem to place a lot of trust in that particular authority, but I do like to think we have a pretty keen critical eye.

I think it's an interesting point and it's one I discussed with someone who was hostile and trying to prove that, say, people who accept evolution do so for no better reason than religionists who accept their dogma.

Of course, the first and most important distinction exposing the false equivalence there is that it is possible - if unlikely - for each and every one of us to go perform each of those experiments again and test to see whether they were accurately reported.

The problem there is simply time. I think it was around the 12th century any individual human being's brain was sufficiently capacious to contain the then sum of human history. We can't be experts on everything, and needing to learn the basics of every science just to check a contemporary article would be unrealistic. Although an intriguing challenge!

So my answer then was that we all trust scientific method and the institutions built around it for a good reason - because they were designed expressly to sort the wheat from the chaff. Firstly, the methodology clearly works and works very well, and the data produced by any experimentation needs to be reported transparently so that it can be idiot checked by peers with relevant expertise. Secondly, the enterprise itself rewards those who actively falsify a subject's previously held tenets. There are no other human enterprises I can think of which reward the deviant outsider for knocking down the house of cards. So I think when you know what's arrayed against the claimant of a scientific article, then you can feel somewhat justified in relying on the outcome and accepting the claims made by science just so long as it's always clear that all knowledge is provisional. Whatever it is science tells us may not be right, but it's the best we can know now.

So at least in that regard, if acceptance of science is not freethinking, then I expect I'd be obliged to consign myself to that label too!

 

[Gnug215]

See, this is the kind of non-absolutist thinking I like.

So yeah, in that sense, I guess you're in the right place.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Certainly seems that way. Anywhere that can maintain the interest of both Rumcrack and Faginstash must be the right place!

 

[Gnug215]

Certainly seems that way. Anywhere that can maintain the interest of both Rumcrack and Faginstash must be the right place!

Well, Dumstafet and Laggydash were surprisingly easy to entertain. Just throw them a few occasional crumbs of creationist studpidity, and they're good to go.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Well, Dumstafet and Laggydash were surprisingly easy to entertain. Just throw them a few occasional crumbs of creationist studpidity, and they're good to go.

Awww bless 'em.