All things have a 100% chance of happening...

[Icefire9atla]

I was thinking about this last night... don't ask why... if you think about it then everything in the universe has a 100% chance of happening when you look at it from the perspective of infinite time...or timelessness.

Good thing time isn't infinite.

How do you know?

I doubt we'll ever be able to determine whether time is infinite or just really large, just like if we can ever detect alternate universes (big if), if there are an infinite number of them or just a large number.

 

[DrunkCat]

Good thing time isn't infinite.

How do you know? quote]

...Because it started? Something that has a beginning is not infinite.

 

[borrofburi]

...Because it started? Something that has a beginning is not infinite.

Aside from treating infinity as a number, I would point out there are plenty of things that have beginnings but not ends in both mathematics and computer science (well, in the latter case we pull the power plug if we have to).

 

[DrunkCat]

I would say heat death is one hell of an end.

 

[Jorick]

Only in multiple universes.
(got into the wrong leg of the trousers of time?)
Just take the simple example of my last 15 minutes: I ate pasta. I could just as well have eaten rice/bread/cake/choclate/nothing/the dirt from under my shoes/swallowed a bottle of toilet cleaner.
Obviously, only the pasta happened. For the other events to happen, there must be a me again (same genetics, same life, not one second different) and the exact same evening (and it was a bad one, I don't wish it on anybody, let alone me again) and then I must make a different decission.
How can that happen? Things could not be the same again, an awful lot of stuff had to happen a lot of times and some trillion gazillion thingyillion times more to cover all the possible decissions I alone have made so far.
And then there's everybody else and their decissions and since their decissions influence mine theres another thigyillion mes doing things differently and now my brain hurts.

Haha, nice, I'm glad I'm not the only one to make the Discworld reference.

Anyway, I think the idea is a cool hypothetical scenario to think about, but not worth anything more than that. It's certainly a cool concept: infinite universes in which all of the infinite possibilities happen at least once in one of them. That would mean in some of them, no life came into existence; in others, every planet in every galaxy has life. And the vast array of possible biological and geological structures, not to mention those beyond my imagination... Like I said, fun to think about but nothing more.

 

[M.W.T.B.F.]

Hypothetically, I suppose so, if we ignore factors such as finite existences of certain objects (Stars, planets, etc.)

However, that's just the darnedest problem with math and science, if you ignore even the tiniest factor, then everything in what you have stated is wrong and must be put through revisions.

 

[Doc.]

how about a fact that isolated system will eventually reach equilibrium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

 

[Salv]

Aside from treating infinity as a number, I would point out there are plenty of things that have beginnings but not ends in both mathematics and computer science (well, in the latter case we pull the power plug if we have to).

I would argue that mathematics and computer science is not the real world.

 

[borrofburi]

how about a fact that isolated system will eventually reach equilibrium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

That's statistical thermo, it's kind of like the "fact" that the air in a box will be eventually be evenly distributed: sure, it'll happen, and most of the time that's how the air in the box will be, but because of the motion of the particles there is a very very small probability that all the air will be in just one half the box with the other half being empty space.

I would argue that mathematics and computer science is not the real world.

Then that's the entire argument right there: that infinity can't happen in the real world because you don't think it can happen in the real world. It's not because the universe had a beginning therefore it must have an end, that's a non sequitur.

 

[Doc.]

how about a fact that isolated system will eventually reach equilibrium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

That's statistical thermo, it's kind of like the "fact" that the air in a box will be eventually be evenly distributed: sure, it'll happen, and most of the time that's how the air in the box will be, but because of the motion of the particles there is a very very small probability that all the air will be in just one half the box with the other half being empty space.

so you are saying that the equilibrium will take a very long time to be formed, okay. However when it will finally be reached, if ever, time will be pointless, nothing will change. therefor the idea spoken by the author of the thread is proven wrong.

right? Or are there some more quantum things of your's :lol: (don't mean to sound sarcastic here)

 

[borrofburi]

]That's statistical thermo, it's kind of like the "fact" that the air in a box will be eventually be evenly distributed: sure, it'll happen, and most of the time that's how the air in the box will be, but because of the motion of the particles there is a very very small probability that all the air will be in just one half the box with the other half being empty space.

so you are saying that the equilibrium will take a very long time to be formed, okay. However when it will finally be reached, if ever, time will be pointless, nothing will change. therefor the idea spoken by the author of the thread is proven wrong.

No I'm saying that, like a box of air, after an equilibrium is reached the universe won't necessarily remain that way (just like how the uniform distribution of air in the box will not necessarily continue, and indeed given sufficient time, it is highly likely that it will eventually reach a state of highly unequal distribution).

 

[Salv]

Then that's the entire argument right there: that infinity can't happen in the real world because you don't think it can happen in the real world. It's not because the universe had a beginning therefore it must have an end, that's a non sequitur.

No no, I'm not saying that infinity can't happen because I can't think it can happen. Mathematics has a place holder for infinity, it doesn't mean someone could ever count to infinity...etc. A while (true) loop will conceptually run forever, but can't? The idea that anything will last for infinity is incredibly difficult to grasp. When all the stars have burnt out and the big rip destroys(?) everything. You still an infinite number of years to get through just while time's while (true) loop is true?

Hmm, I've kind of lost where I was going with this. Oh yeah, infinity is difficult to grasp. I need to read up more about infinite universes. I quite like the Family Guy's epic epp about multiverses.

"Oh thank god, we're home"
"Nope we've just arrived in the universe that's full of misleading portraiture"

 

[scalyblue]

In order to make a concrete claim that entropy will affect the universe, you must be certain that the universe is a closed system.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Durakken, with all due respect, I think the best one can do is restate your premise:

"Each event has a non-zero probability associated with it."

In a single universe, this would mean that - even with infinite time - not all events could occur, due to mutual exclusivity, as already pointed out by others in the thread.

As originally stated, however, I think that might only work in a multiverse (specifically, "modal reality") - each universe in it would allow for the occurrence of each possible event, thus all events would occur.

Kindest regards,

James