Alcohol vs. firearm: what makes a right fundamental

[thenexttodie]

This pretty much confirms that you're just trolling. Have fun, I'm not going to feed you anymore. You're clearly not interested in sensible discussion.

Really? Just because I knew someone who accidently blew his fucking head off while high on marijuana? That makes you so mad you don't want to talk to me anymore?

 

[Laurens]

This pretty much confirms that you're just trolling. Have fun, I'm not going to feed you anymore. You're clearly not interested in sensible discussion.

Really? Just because I knew someone who accidently blew his fucking head off while high on marijuana? That makes you so mad you don't want to talk to me anymore?

Yes really.

You clearly just make shit up to be a troll. You have never contributed anything sensible to any discussions. You consistently derail interesting threads and quite frankly you ought to have been banned long ago. Most trolls don't last this long here.

 

[tuxbox]

I've never heard of anyone committing suicide while smoking pot.

 

[thenexttodie]

It wasn't a suicicide. It was an accident. It was the boyfriend of my best friends sister. I was only like 11 or 12 at the time.

 

[tuxbox]

It wasn't a suicicide. It was an accident. It was the boyfriend of my best friends sister. I was only like 11 or 12 at the time.

Sorry about that, I mis-read your post, and I am sorry that he died.

 

[thenexttodie]

You clearly just make shit up to be a troll. You have never contributed anything sensible to any discussions. You consistently derail interesting threads and quite frankly you ought to have been banned long ago. Most trolls don't last this long here.

Your side is winning, Laurens. So don't worry. You basically have the entire support of world wide, main stream media and government, of your worldview.

 

[Visaki]

I don't see why anyone would protest an accurate conveyance of ones beliefs. Or at least an attempt to. Vasaki can correct me if he does not in fact support suicide. Perhaps it's a bit off topic but he was the one brought it up. So wtf?

It's a red herring but... my answer is yes and no. I think I've made myself clear in the euthanasia thread but if you have further questions or want to discuss this matter further that'd be a better place for it.

God had men women and babies killed. I believe we all have fundamental right to life but <i></i>I also believe God has the authority to end our lives or to give the authority to for instance, judges, who should sentence people to death for committing certain crimes like murder.

What's with the "but"? Can we say something is a fundamental right if we have a "but"?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness but....

I know it all totally blows your mind and you will never understand it.

Yes, I will never understand why one willingly want's to be amoral.

 

[tuxbox]

The difference between the two should be obvious. I'd love to see statistics on how many lives cars save each year vs how many lives guns save each year but I guess that's rather hard to do. But is anyone here actually for 100% ban on gun ownership of private citizens? Or for 100% free everything goes weapon owning?

I'm not sure how many of the members here are for a total ban on firearms, but I bet most are for a ban on hand guns and assault rifles. Which are the two types of firearms under attack in the States. I could be persuaded on the assault rifle ban but not had guns.

I went into the "does a gun make you a danger / more dangerous" bit with thenexttodie because I disagree with his statement that having a gun doesn't make you more dangerous, not because I think all guns should be banned only because they make their carrier more dangerous.

How does it make the carrier more dangerous? I mean, if the carrier does not have a violent past and is not a violent person, then I doubt that getting a gun is going to change his/hers violent tendencies.

P.S. Why did car deaths plummet in 2007-8? Did people loose their cars in the crash too? Did the Americans finally discover seat belts? Yes I'm being silly but it would be interesting to know the reason for that.

It could be down for those years due to high gas prices, which means less unnecessary travel.

P.P.S. If I'm not mistaken most of those gun deaths are suicides. I wonder how many of those could have been prevented if there isn't a suicide button in hand? Mind you this isn't really a good argument for gun bans, the least a total ban, but I think it should be a worth remembering.

EDIT: Found a newer graph. Nothing much new there though, but new stats are better than old stats.

I tried to commit suicide a few years ago and I am glad I did not have a gun at that moment.

 

[Visaki]

I'm not sure how many of the members here are for a total ban on firearms, but I bet most are for a ban on hand guns and assault rifles. Which are the two types of firearms under attack in the States. I could be persuaded on the assault rifle ban but not had guns.

I've probably said this before but I find the Finnish way pretty good. We have a ban on automatic weapons, you can own a semiauto rifle (of course shotguns and hunting rifles too), even a Valmet Petra (which is a semiauto version of Finnish army RK95 rifle), and you can get a handgun. You need a permit for each and a reason for getting one (hunting, shooting hobby etc). Licence to carry a handgun in a public place is very hard to get. So we have pretty strict control, but gun ownership is possible if you have a reason for getting a gun.

How does it make the carrier more dangerous? I mean, if the carrier does not have a violent past and is not a violent person, then I doubt that getting a gun is going to change his/hers violent tendencies.

Accidents happen, even to the most qualified gun handlers. We have a case here where a police officer teaching gun safety shot one of his student by accident a few years back. Every person is a danger, the question is how much of a danger. Having a gun raises that danger. The amount might not be significant nor a good argument against gun ownership (and I never claimed it was), but it's not zero unlike thenexttodie claimed. It's a cost/benefit calculation: what is the cost or benefit of this person having a gun, and is it worth it for the society.

It could be down for those years due to high gas prices, which means less unnecessary travel.

We're getting offtopic, but... That might be a factor, but the drop is significant and permanent it seems and I find it hard to believe it's just because of drop in km traveled because of gas prices.

I tried to commit suicide a few years ago and I am glad I did not have a gun at that moment.

For what's it worth I'm glad also.

 

[tuxbox]

I've probably said this before but I find the Finnish way pretty good. We have a ban on automatic weapons, you can own a semiauto rifle (of course shotguns and hunting rifles too), even a Valmet Petra (which is a semiauto version of Finnish army RK95 rifle), and you can get a handgun. You need a permit for each and a reason for getting one (hunting, shooting hobby etc). Licence to carry a handgun in a public place is very hard to get. So we have pretty strict control, but gun ownership is possible if you have a reason for getting a gun.

Yeah, I like Finland's policy for firearms.

Accidents happen, even to the most qualified gun handlers. We have a case here where a police officer teaching gun safety shot one of his student by accident a few years back. Every person is a danger, the question is how much of a danger. Having a gun raises that danger. The amount might not be significant nor a good argument against gun ownership (and I never claimed it was), but it's not zero unlike thenexttodie claimed. It's a cost/benefit calculation: what is the cost or benefit of this person having a gun, and is it worth it for the society.

Accidents=/=dangerous is my opinion. Dangerous would be someone with a disregard to gun safety. Someone who is reckless due to either recklessness or someone who disrespects the power of handling a firearm.

We're getting offtopic, but... That might be a factor, but the drop is significant and permanent it seems and I find it hard to believe it's just because of drop in km traveled because of gas prices.

fair enough...

For what's it worth I'm glad also.

Thank you!

 

[thenexttodie]

I'm not sure how many of the members here are for a total ban on firearms, but I bet most are for a ban on hand guns and assault rifles. Which are the two types of firearms under attack in the States. I could be persuaded on the assault rifle ban but not had guns.

The people who tell assault rifles are bad are the same ones who secretly give them away to civilians in other countries.

I tried to commit suicide a few years ago and I am glad I did not have a gun at that moment.

That's terrible. Never, never, never commit suicide. No matter what.