AiG: "Evolution not a theory" and "Four power questions"

[abelcainsbrother]

Idmitruk
I'm glad you read up on the gap theory but if it is true like I believe it is then it proves evolution is wrong and life does not evolve.And it defeats evolution even if you reject the biblical interpretation too,we don't even have to bring the bible into it,but I think we would but it will be a more believable theory using the same evidence the theory of evolution uses.

It's been awhile since I read what Wiki says about the gap theory but I bet young earth creationists wrote it and put their misinformation in it they do it all the time defending their traditional biblical interpretation.

All we need to see is knowledgable old earth gap theorists debate evolutionists and you'd see the competition it gives the theory of evolution unlike young earth creationism.

 

[ldmitruk]

Idmitruk
I'm glad you read up on the gap theory but if it is true like I believe it is then it proves evolution is wrong and life does not evolve.And it defeats evolution even if you reject the biblical interpretation too,we don't even have to bring the bible into it,but I think we would but it will be a more believable theory using the same evidence the theory of evolution uses.

It's been awhile since I read what Wiki says about the gap theory but I bet young earth creationists wrote it and put their misinformation in it they do it all the time defending their traditional biblical interpretation.

All we need to see is knowledgable old earth gap theorists debate evolutionists and you'd see the competition it gives the theory of evolution unlike young earth creationism.

Debates don't determine which theory wins. Theory need to be backed up by facts and observations. I did a quick check on GeoScience World searching for gap theory and nothing in the journals there seemed to indicate any kind of support for the gap theory or any mention of it for that matter, well with the exception of seismic gap theory. So I await patiently for citations from reputable science journals of this so called gap theory you keep telling us about. Until this kind of information is provided the gap theory you keep telling us about is nothing more than one more god of gaps just so story.

 

[Grumpy Santa]

I suppose I should dig around, but what exactly is this gap hypothesis and why is it being called "theory"?

 

[SpecialFrog]

I suppose I should dig around, but what exactly is this gap hypothesis and why is it being called "theory"?

Not much to dig into. The basic idea is that life on Earth started, died out and then started again. Any extinct life forms incompatible with YEC notions of biology came from before the die out and therefore don't have to be explained in the context of Noah's ark, biodiversity, etc.

It's completely ad hoc and despite his claims, Abel has provided no extra-biblical evidence. No one appears to be able to say when this gap happened (which doesn't exist in the fossil record) or how you can tell if a fossil is pre- or post-gap.

 

[Grumpy Santa]

I suppose I should dig around, but what exactly is this gap hypothesis and why is it being called "theory"?

Not much to dig into. The basic idea is that life on Earth started, died out and then started again. Any extinct life forms incompatible with YEC notions of biology came from before the die out and therefore don't have to be explained in the context of Noah's ark, biodiversity, etc.

It's completely ad hoc and despite his claims, Abel has provided no extra-biblical evidence. No one appears to be able to say when this gap happened (which doesn't exist in the fossil record) or how you can tell if a fossil is pre- or post-gap.

Eh... wow. That's a new one. If I'm grasping that correctly there's not even any intra-biblical "evidence" supporting that, is there? Are they considering every extinction event as a "gap" of some kind (even though there are still lineages that cross those alleged "gaps"? Or it is more specific, only relating to some flood mythology? I suppose he's one of those that doesn't know what a theory is either, or does and thinks that sticking "theory" on this wild-assed speculation somehow gives it the illusion of credibility.

Thanks for the reply by the way, it's appreciated.

 

[ldmitruk]

I suppose I should dig around, but what exactly is this gap hypothesis and why is it being called "theory"?

The gap theory is something old earth creationists use to try and twist science so it supports the fairy tale told in Genesis. It says there were two creation events, I guess god screwed up the first time around so he had to start over again. Anyhow the claim is the two creation events explain the age of the earth as there was a gap of time between the two events. What's really funny about the gap theory is it give young earth creationists fits as it doesn't interpret the biblical fairy tales literally.

 

[SpecialFrog]

Eh... wow. That's a new one. If I'm grasping that correctly there's not even any intra-biblical "evidence" supporting that, is there? Are they considering every extinction event as a "gap" of some kind (even though there are still lineages that cross those alleged "gaps"? Or it is more specific, only relating to some flood mythology? I suppose he's one of those that doesn't know what a theory is either, or does and thinks that sticking "theory" on this wild-assed speculation somehow gives it the illusion of credibility.

The Biblical "evidence" is the fact that Genesis appears to recount the creation of life twice with some differences between the two accounts (1:1 to 2:4 or so and then 2:5 onwards). This duplication happens elsewhere in Genesis and is usually attributed to the fact that the modern Torah is an amalgam of two or more previous texts.

However, given the incontrovertible evidence that some things are too old for a recent creation, some people want to assume that this duplication is significant. There are a few other verses that are used to support this, though they involve a lot of hand-waving.

I don't know that you will get any specifics on this "gap" from Abel -- certainly no one else has -- but I think he has claimed that God decided to make some of the same "kinds" the second time around as he did the first so it only looks like beetles and the like have never gone extinct.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Not much to dig into. The basic idea is that life on Earth started, died out and then started again. Any extinct life forms incompatible with YEC notions of biology came from before the die out and therefore don't have to be explained in the context of Noah's ark, biodiversity, etc.

It's completely ad hoc and despite his claims, Abel has provided no extra-biblical evidence. No one appears to be able to say when this gap happened (which doesn't exist in the fossil record) or how you can tell if a fossil is pre- or post-gap.

Eh... wow. That's a new one. If I'm grasping that correctly there's not even any intra-biblical "evidence" supporting that, is there? Are they considering every extinction event as a "gap" of some kind (even though there are still lineages that cross those alleged "gaps"? Or it is more specific, only relating to some flood mythology? I suppose he's one of those that doesn't know what a theory is either, or does and thinks that sticking "theory" on this wild-assed speculation somehow gives it the illusion of credibility.

Thanks for the reply by the way, it's appreciated.

We actually addressed this nonsense in this thread - and he never learned anything from it, which is why he's repeating it all over again.

Edit: Added link!

Kindest regards,

James

 

[abelcainsbrother]

I suppose I should dig around, but what exactly is this gap hypothesis and why is it being called "theory"?

The gap theory is something old earth creationists use to try and twist science so it supports the fairy tale told in Genesis. It says there were two creation events, I guess god screwed up the first time around so he had to start over again. Anyhow the claim is the two creation events explain the age of the earth as there was a gap of time between the two events. What's really funny about the gap theory is it give young earth creationists fits as it doesn't interpret the biblical fairy tales literally.

This is wrong.I can prove based on St Augustine's writings that St Augustine living 500 years ago understood the gap.Compare 500 years to 150 years of evolution.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Greetings,

We actually addressed this nonsense in this thread - and he never learned anything from it, which is why he's repeating it all over again.



James

It is'nt nonsense and I now understand it better than I did back then.For instance the former world perished at the ice age when wooly mammoths and many other kinds of life died,it is because God flooded the heavens and earth with water which caused the earth to freeze,the water blocked out the sunlight until day 4 in Genesis 1 when God made them,not create but made them,which means they were already there the sun,moon,stars,planets,etc but the sun light was blocked out which caused the earth to freeze.

The earth is flooded and frozen in Genesis 1:2 and science confirms it,except they only can see the ice age,because God removed all of that water off of the earth and put it in outer space on day 2. I know scientists never consider the bible,but they confirm things it says true all the time,while trying to prove evolution.We have big huge chunks of ice in outer space also that confirms God removed water off the earth and put it in outer space.I just recently found a scientific article and astronomers discovered a huge and massive chunk of ice deep in outer space and it is a huge chunk of ice.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Idmitruk
I'm glad you read up on the gap theory but if it is true like I believe it is then it proves evolution is wrong and life does not evolve.And it defeats evolution even if you reject the biblical interpretation too,we don't even have to bring the bible into it,but I think we would but it will be a more believable theory using the same evidence the theory of evolution uses.

It's been awhile since I read what Wiki says about the gap theory but I bet young earth creationists wrote it and put their misinformation in it they do it all the time defending their traditional biblical interpretation.

All we need to see is knowledgable old earth gap theorists debate evolutionists and you'd see the competition it gives the theory of evolution unlike young earth creationism.

Debates don't determine which theory wins. Theory need to be backed up by facts and observations. I did a quick check on GeoScience World searching for gap theory and nothing in the journals there seemed to indicate any kind of support for the gap theory or any mention of it for that matter, well with the exception of seismic gap theory. So I await patiently for citations from reputable science journals of this so called gap theory you keep telling us about. Until this kind of information is provided the gap theory you keep telling us about is nothing more than one more god of gaps just so story.

I know debaters don't determine truth but they can and I know evolution is a giant but we understand its weaknesses even if you are ignoring them.Science will never allow the bible to be true,so I don't expect peer reviewed papers confirming the gap theory.We use the same evidence you do for evolution but come to different conclusions based on the evidence and you should blame Charles Darwin for this,not us,we are just setting the record straight on what the evidence in the earth has always confirmed and it isn't evolution.

 

[ldmitruk]

I know debaters don't determine truth but they can and I know evolution is a giant but we understand its weaknesses even if you are ignoring them.Science will never allow the bible to be true,so I don't expect peer reviewed papers confirming the gap theory.We use the same evidence you do for evolution but come to different conclusions based on the evidence and you should blame Charles Darwin for this,not us,we are just setting the record straight on what the evidence in the earth has always confirmed and it isn't evolution.

Scientists won't allow the bible to be true? :docpalm: Pulling out the conspiracy aspect again I see. As for the same evidence, different conclusions, that''s straight out of Ken Ham's play book. To paraphrase him "When we put on our bible glasses..." It's not a matter of allowing the bible to be true, as we have progressed and learned more about natural processes and how they actually work, we have come to the realization the bible has no relevance in modern science. It's nothing more than a collection of rehashed myths plagiarized from previous cultures. If the bible is such great source of scientific knowledge what does it predict we'll discover from the next set of runs on the Large Hadron Collider. As for blaming it all on Charles Darwin what a laugh. Next thing you'll be doing is blaming Charles Darwin and his theory for all the wars that occurred in the 20th century. Oh wait that's been done before.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Greetings,

We actually addressed this nonsense in this thread - and he never learned anything from it, which is why he's repeating it all over again.



James

It is'nt nonsense and I now understand it better than I did back then.For instance the former world perished at the ice age when wooly mammoths and many other kinds of life died,it is because God flooded the heavens and earth with water which caused the earth to freeze,the water blocked out the sunlight until day 4 in Genesis 1 when God made them,not create but made them,which means they were already there the sun,moon,stars,planets,etc but the sun light was blocked out which caused the earth to freeze.

The earth is flooded and frozen in Genesis 1:2 and science confirms it,except they only can see the ice age,because God removed all of that water off of the earth and put it in outer space on day 2. I know scientists never consider the bible,but they confirm things it says true all the time,while trying to prove evolution.We have big huge chunks of ice in outer space also that confirms God removed water off the earth and put it in outer space.I just recently found a scientific article and astronomers discovered a huge and massive chunk of ice deep in outer space and it is a huge chunk of ice.

Wrong - as I pointed out in the linked (added) thread above, and in this specific post:

The final resting place of woolly mammoths was Wrangel Island in the Arctic. Although, most of the woolly mammoth population died out by 10,000 years ago, a small population of 500-1000 woolly mammoths lived on Wrangel Island until 1650 BC. That’s only about 4,000 years ago! For context, Egyptian pharoahs were midway through their empire and it was about 1000 years after the Giza pyramids were built. the reason for the demise of these woolly mammoths are unknown.

Your attempts to place the alleged "gap" somewhere in the real history of the Earth are untenable.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Shanara99]

Greetings,

We actually addressed this nonsense in this thread - and he never learned anything from it, which is why he's repeating it all over again.



James

It is'nt nonsense and I now understand it better than I did back then.For instance the former world perished at the ice age when wooly mammoths and many other kinds of life died,it is because God flooded the heavens and earth with water which caused the earth to freeze,the water blocked out the sunlight until day 4 in Genesis 1 when God made them,not create but made them,which means they were already there the sun,moon,stars,planets,etc but the sun light was blocked out which caused the earth to freeze.

The earth is flooded and frozen in Genesis 1:2 and science confirms it,except they only can see the ice age,because God removed all of that water off of the earth and put it in outer space on day 2. I know scientists never consider the bible,but they confirm things it says true all the time,while trying to prove evolution.We have big huge chunks of ice in outer space also that confirms God removed water off the earth and put it in outer space.I just recently found a scientific article and astronomers discovered a huge and massive chunk of ice deep in outer space and it is a huge chunk of ice.

So, what's the difference between "made" and "create"?

Also, according to genesis 1... mankind didn't exist in day 4. In that fable, mankind was created the 6th day, so your own bible contradicts your idea.

I'd like to go into more detail about your "massive chunk of ice in outer space". But first I'd like to have a link towards that discovery... because I'd love knowing what we're talking about. Is a comet? a planetoid? A frozen asteroid? Is it frozen water? frozen metane? Frozen nitrogen? So, please, link me towards your particular piece of ice in space... I mean, there's more than 1, so I'd love to know which one is the one you're talking about, here

 

[Visaki]

This is wrong.I can prove based on St Augustine's writings that St Augustine living 500 years ago understood the gap.Compare 500 years to 150 years of evolution.

Augustine of Hippo actually died in 430, so it's not really 500 years. But nitpicking aside Augustine was in all probability a Young Earth Creationist, just like almost everyone in his days, in hisThe Literal Interpretation of Genesis Augustine took the view that everything in the universe was created simultaneously by God. So if you have proof that Augustine at least understood the gap then present it.

I don't understand why I should compare 500 (or 1500) years to 150 years of evolution? The age of a theory (which evolution is in a scientific sense and gap creationism isn't) does not tell you about the actual validity of the theory. Just being old doesn't make a theory true, being a evidently accurate presentation of reality after being rigorously tested time and time again with the benefit of the scientific method is what makes a theory true.

 

[Visaki]

It is'nt nonsense and I now understand it better than I did back then.For instance the former world perished at the ice age when wooly mammoths and many other kinds of life died,it is because God flooded the heavens and earth with water which caused the earth to freeze,the water blocked out the sunlight until day 4 in Genesis 1 when God made them,not create but made them,which means they were already there the sun,moon,stars,planets,etc but the sun light was blocked out which caused the earth to freeze.

The earth is flooded and frozen in Genesis 1:2 and science confirms it,except they only can see the ice age,because God removed all of that water off of the earth and put it in outer space on day 2. I know scientists never consider the bible,but they confirm things it says true all the time,while trying to prove evolution.We have big huge chunks of ice in outer space also that confirms God removed water off the earth and put it in outer space.I just recently found a scientific article and astronomers discovered a huge and massive chunk of ice deep in outer space and it is a huge chunk of ice.

Actually huge chunks of water in outer space just proves that the magnetic field eating space duck (whos existance was proven by Andromedas Wake back in 2010 I believe) just likes his magnetic fields "on the rocks" so to speak.

Or in other words jumping from "huge chunk of ice in outer space" (the technical term used by astronomers is, I believe, "a comet") to "God took all the water from Earth and put it in outer space" is a galazy-class non sequitur, with a side of ad hoc. Why can't you just be honest and confess that your claim boils down to "God did it with magic"? Because that's what it really is, and thus all the sciency parts are totally useless.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Just to emphasise the contradiction in what you're saying about the end of the Ice Age being "the gap", abelcainsbrother, here is what you said in the other thread in this post:

Fossils are not evidence for A "gap", they are evidence of both individual deaths and MANY "gaps" between various extinctions.

You've jumped about trying to fit all of them into a single "gap" - until I mentioned the last Ice Age and then grasped at that straw.

Yet I've shown that this does not fit your alleged "gap" either - both through the fact that mammoths and elephants co-existed, and that mammoths survived both your alleged "gap" and the alleged Noah's Flood.

Despite this, you continue to ignore the scientific evidence in your intellectual dishonesty.

Yes fossils are evidence for a former world that existed on this earth full of life that perished especially since there is no evidence that life evolves,you keep ignoring this fact. No there were not many gaps according to evolution,evolution teaches that there have never been full extinctions which is the point of 2nd Peter 3:3-7 which I have shown.It is from doing research that I've come to realize that the former world fully perished at the time of the last ice age because of dust in the ice cores from all around the earth and in the oceans,etc.

And yet, as I've shown in the other thread and now this one, mammoths survived both the end of the Ice Age and Noah's Flood!!

Yet you persist in this nonsense claim.

Your "realization" that "the former world fully perished at the time of the last ice age [sic]" from "doing research" is misguided, to say the least.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Inferno]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

And round and round we go.
Abel, when will you realize that you are not getting anywhere with this? And you never will.
I'm really starting to believe that most Christians are simply hopeless, they can't even get pass the most basic of stuff. They are simply to thick, probably reason why they hold their position in the first place.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Greetings,

Just to emphasise the contradiction in what you're saying about the end of the Ice Age being "the gap", abelcainsbrother, here is what you said in the other thread in this post:

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Fossils are not evidence for A "gap", they are evidence of both individual deaths and MANY "gaps" between various extinctions.

You've jumped about trying to fit all of them into a single "gap" - until I mentioned the last Ice Age and then grasped at that straw.

Yet I've shown that this does not fit your alleged "gap" either - both through the fact that mammoths and elephants co-existed, and that mammoths survived both your alleged "gap" and the alleged Noah's Flood.

Despite this, you continue to ignore the scientific evidence in your intellectual dishonesty.

Yes fossils are evidence for a former world that existed on this earth full of life that perished especially since there is no evidence that life evolves,you keep ignoring this fact. No there were not many gaps according to evolution,evolution teaches that there have never been full extinctions which is the point of 2nd Peter 3:3-7 which I have shown.It is from doing research that I've come to realize that the former world fully perished at the time of the last ice age because of dust in the ice cores from all around the earth and in the oceans,etc.

And yet, as I've shown in the other thread and now this one, mammoths survived both the end of the Ice Age and Noah's Flood!!

Yet you persist in this nonsense claim.

Your "realization" that "the former world fully perished at the time of the last ice age [sic]" from "doing research" is misguided, to say the least.

Kindest regards,

James[/quote]


You seem to forget that you could not give any evidence from science that demonstrates life evolves,first off,none of you could or did so I can say with great confidence the fossils and death and extinction has nothing to do with life evolving and is forensic scientific evidence for a former world full of life.

You see science went the way of uniformatism because of evolution but the truth is catastrophism and the evidence in the earth proves it,without the belief life evolves there is no reason to believe the world has went on continually from the beginning for billions of years so that life can evolve and without evidence that demonstrates life evolves? I can take all of the evidence built around evolution but use it instead for a former world existing that perished,sure you may not accept it but a lot of people will who desire truth and a belief in God's word.