Adam and Eve in Islam.

[sturmgewehr]

The story of Adam and Eve in Islam is not the same as that in the bible, there is a fundamental difference here.

In the bible Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil before eating the forbidden fruit, whereas in the Quran it doesn't say so, in the Quran it says that Adam and Eve took the command not to eat the Fruit and this implies that they knew it is bad since it was forbidden.

There is the Argument that it wasn't Adam's Fault for eating the apple since God knew this will happen which implies it is not Adams fault at all and the counter argument is that God really knew about it but he didn't force Adam to eat the fruit, Adam by Himself chose to eat the fruit, to know something is not the same as to impose someone something, it is like I know person X is a thief and that he will steal but it is not my fault that he steals.

Another argument to Adam eating the apple is:

God knew Adam will eat the apple, God knew that the Devil will tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple but he didn't do anything about it and god knew this will result into Adam's fall from heaven and that later many people won't believe and hell will be filled with people, this was all god's will.

The counter argument to this is that if god didn't let Adam chose the apple he wouldn't have free will, if he didn't punish both Adam and Eve there would be no Justice and if he didn't forgive them he wouldn't be merciful since it says that he forgave them for the sin.

Discuss.

 

[Vanlavak]

It wasn't an apple, it was only identified as a fruit. For all we know, it could have been a golden watermelon growing on a tree.

 

[australopithecus]

It couldn't have been anything, because it never happened.

 

[Dean]

It couldn't have been anything, because it never happened.

Obviously true, but methinks he was talking about the context of the story. E.g. what did the author intend to mean by "fruit", if it was just said as "fruit", with no further specification.

But you're right of course. And for that reason, why should anyone even care?

 

[sturmgewehr]

I don't think there was any fruit and I think Islam doesn't even mention a fruit only a mistake but still the essence of story.

 

[devilsadvocate]

This is a deep question, but for further discussion I'd try to point out a fault in this argument:

Adam by Himself chose to eat the fruit, to know something is not the same as to impose someone something, it is like I know person X is a thief and that he will steal but it is not my fault that he steals.

This is a false analogy between God and a human. We don't really know if a thief will steal or not, we can only give our best guesses based on the tendencies of the individual and other factors. The way God supposedly knows things is to absolute accuracy. The issue here is briefly,

Either God created the universe to be deterministic, and he knows beforehand how the history will unfold because the way he tuned all the laws of nature, initial conditions and so forth. But if everyone's actions are predetermined by causal chain extending all the way to the creation, how is anyone responsible for their actions?

Or, there's room for (non-causal) free will for individuals to act on. But how can God then know, even before the person himself knows, what the person will choose to do?

The latter position is the more interesting one while discussing theology, and it has divided more believers than atheists, I think. Some believers have come to the conclusion that foreknowledge does imply deterministic universe and have reformed their belief system around that philosophical position (calvinism, for a well-known example). Other theists have countered that conclusion by revoking God's ontologically special status - Being the being outside time and dimension. They argue that because God is outside of time, or infinitely expanded in time, he can know everything that will happen, while simultaneously being unknowing at any certain time. To spare everyone from tedious and ultimately fruitless metaphysics, some philosophers have took this position seriously, some have had a hearty laugh at it. Like most metaphysics, I guess, it's just a matter of opinion.

 

[sturmgewehr]

This is a false analogy between God and a human. We don't really know if a thief will steal or not, we can only give our best guesses based on the tendencies of the individual and other factors. The way God supposedly knows things is to absolute accuracy. The issue here is briefly,

yeah I kind of realized that too.

Other theists have countered that conclusion by revoking God's ontologically special status - Being the being outside time and dimension. They argue that because God is outside of time, or infinitely expanded in time, he can know everything that will happen, while simultaneously being unknowing at any certain time.

First of all how do you define being outside time and dimension?

How does the highlighted part make sense ?

 

[devilsadvocate]

First of all how do you define being outside time and dimension?

How does the highlighted part make sense ?

Good questions.

 

[tuxbox]

If you go by the Christian Old Testament ( or the Jewish version, what that is called) God is not all knowing.

 

[sturmgewehr]

If you go by the Christian Old Testament ( or the Jewish version, what that is called) God is not all knowing.

I think he is and that is the whole point of Personal God since Personal god refers to Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnibenevolence.

 

[tuxbox]

If you go by the Christian Old Testament ( or the Jewish version, what that is called) God is not all knowing.

I think he is and that is the whole point of Personal God since Personal god refers to Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnibenevolence.

And how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[sturmgewehr]

And how did you come to that conclusion?

Well, God Created everything, he knows everything about his creation, at least for Islam this is how it is, in Islam God is Omniscient and all knowing I think same goes for the Christian God and this is the Article I was referring to when Talking about God's Omniscience in Christianity:

http://www.cogwriter.com/god-omnipotent-omniscient-omnipresent.htm

Also read these verses from the bible:

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

1 John 3:19-20

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

there is more but i couldnt be bothered lol.