Accupuncture helps take the edge of menopause

[Shaedys]

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...puncture-may-take-edge-off-menopause-symptoms

TUESDAY, March 8 (HealthDay News) -- Acupuncture may help reduce the severity of hot flashes and other symptoms of menopause, according to a small study.

The research included 53 postmenopausal women, with about half receiving traditional Chinese acupuncture twice a week and the others given sham acupuncture treatments.

I would think that the small size of the study might have something to do with the results.

 

[Gnug215]

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...puncture-may-take-edge-off-menopause-symptoms

TUESDAY, March 8 (HealthDay News) -- Acupuncture may help reduce the severity of hot flashes and other symptoms of menopause, according to a small study.

The research included 53 postmenopausal women, with about half receiving traditional Chinese acupuncture twice a week and the others given sham acupuncture treatments.

I would think that the small size of the study might have something to do with the results.

Actually, I just read an article about how they've just found out how acupuncture works (and yes, according to many studies, it does have an effect): apparently the needles release... eh, adenosine, which blocks cell-transmissions of pain signals.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific or bring any references right now, but it's early and I'm on my way out the door.

But eh, as Minchin asked once: "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine."

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

I remember that c0nc0rdance had a video about various topics and one of them was acupuncture. He mentions a study and what was funny was that the study showed acupuncture did have an effect larger than placebos but if you replaced acupuncture needles with toothpicks, the effect increases.

 

[Shaedys]

I remember that c0nc0rdance had a video about various topics and one of them was acupuncture. He mentions a study and what was funny was that the study showed acupuncture did have an effect larger than placebos but if you replaced acupuncture needles with toothpicks, the effect increases.

This of course proves that acupuncture is so powerful it even works with toothpicks.
Was on of the choices he put after that I think.

I remember that bit of the video, but not any kind of study on it being true.

 

[borrofburi]

I remember that bit of the video, but not any kind of study on it being true.

Define "true"... The problem with acupuncture is: how do you define a placebo? What is placebo acupuncture?

 

[Shaedys]

I remember that bit of the video, but not any kind of study on it being true.

Define "true"... The problem with acupuncture is: how do you define a placebo? What is placebo acupuncture?

Should have said working, where the effects don't go away if you take away the placebo effect.

 

[borrofburi]

Define "true"... The problem with acupuncture is: how do you define a placebo? What is placebo acupuncture?

Should have said working, where the effects don't go away if you take away the placebo effect.

Right... But how do you take away the placebo effect? How do you distinguish between acupuncture that is more than placebo, and acupuncture that is just placebo? How do you control for placebo in acupuncture? It's easy to do with pills: every pill looks and feels pretty much the same, and since they're swallowed they skip the taste sensing altogether; so to create a placebo pill you just make one that looks and feels the same as the actual pill but has entirely different chemicals on the inside, one set of which is completely inert, and the other of which is the actual drug.

In direct analogy to our drug placebo: How do you do acupuncture that looks and feels the same (to both doctor and patient) as normal acupuncture but that is completely inert and does not have the important elements of real acupuncture?

 

[Pulsar]

This is the conc0rdance video that Duvel mentioned:

 

[Pulsar]

Btw, the study in the OP was published in Acupuncture in Medicine, the "Official Journal of the British Medical Acupuncture Society". Those guys might be a tad biased...

 

[Squawk]

Borro, can you remember that study we found on acupuncture controls. I know it got posted around here somewhere but I didn't save a link to it.

The problem is that you can't really get a control for an acupuncture needle, part of the reason being that any needle inserted in the body gives a physiological reaction. Acupuncture does do something, and it definitely helps in some cases. The question is, are the acupuncture points of any use? If I get time tomorrow I'll try and dig out the study. Gnug might have a link.

Decent place to start

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...cebos&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=on

 

[borrofburi]

Borro, can you remember that study we found on acupuncture controls. I know it got posted around here somewhere but I didn't save a link to it.

It wasn't posted on the forums. And I have no clue what day it was that we had the conversation in chat.

 

[Gnug215]

Right, I forgot about this one, hehe.

I found some links, although I haven't looked into them that much. I just read about them in a mag.

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v13/n7/full/nn.2562.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100530144021.htm

And some references to mags:

Nature Neuroscience, 30/5/2010, vol 13, p. 883
Nature Medicine, 1/2008, vol 14, p. 75
Progress in Neurobiology, 2008, vol. 85, p. 355


That's what the mag I read refers to.

It is, of course, entirely possible that the mag is jumping on the sensation wagon.

 

[borrofburi]

Borro, can you remember that study we found on acupuncture controls. I know it got posted around here somewhere but I didn't save a link to it.

It wasn't posted on the forums. And I have no clue what day it was that we had the conversation in chat.

I do however recall that it was a review of acupuncture placebos... and I could have sworn it was on pubmed... But I can't seem to find it. I can't quite remember the title.

 

[borrofburi]

This review did not demonstrate the existence of acupoint specificity. Further clinical trials with larger sample sizes, optimal acupuncture treatment protocols and appropriate sham acupuncture controls are required to resolve this important issue. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20145733

I still can't find the one squawk is referring to (I think I'll give up now).

 

[Case]

*waves magic stick*

http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk//viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1060&start=0

That's how I roll.

By the way, there's a shitload of obscure articles on Web of science knowledge (bullshit name change imho) like this one: Sunay, D., Sunay, M., Aydogmus, Y., et al. (2011). ACUPUNCTURE VERSUS PAROXETINE FOR THE TREATMENT OF PREMATURE EJACULATION: A RANDOMIZED PLACEBO CONTROLLED CLINICAL TRIAL. EUROPEAN UROLOGY SUPPLEMENTS, 10,158. Now before you give in to premature exasperation, it's simply the first result when you search for "acupuncture" without any restrictions.

Also, there's a "JOURNAL OF PAIN". How badass is that?

What you guys are looking for is probably the review of reviews by Ernst, E., Lee, M. S., & Choi, T.-Y. (2011). Acupuncture: Does it alleviate pain and are there serious risks? A review of reviews. PAIN, 152, 755-764.

Acupuncture is commonly used for pain control, but doubts about its effectiveness and safety remain.
This review was aimed at critically evaluating systematic reviews of acupuncture as a treatment of pain
and at summarizing reports of serious adverse effects published since 2000. Literature searches were carried
out in 11 databases without language restrictions. Systematic reviews were considered for the evaluation
of effectiveness and case series or case reports for summarizing adverse events. Data were
extracted according to predefined criteria. Fifty-seven systematic reviews met the inclusion criteria. Four
were of excellent methodological quality. Numerous contradictions and caveats emerged. Unanimously
positive conclusions from more than one high-quality systematic review existed only for neck pain.
Ninety-five cases of severe adverse effects including 5 fatalities were included. Pneumothorax and infections
were the most frequently reported adverse effects. In conclusion, numerous systematic reviews
have generated little truly convincing evidence that acupuncture is effective in reducing pain. Serious
adverse effects continue to be reported.