A Reasonable Fox News Panel!

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Recently, Sen. Marco Rubio was asked by GQ "How old do you think the Earth is?" and he gave a seriously wishy-washy answer in an obviously political attempt to avoid offending anybody, saying "It's one of the great mysteries." Fox News put together a panel of religious leaders and liberal commentator Alan Colmes to talk about it and it was a shockingly reasonable discussion.

Probably the most interesting thing about it is that none of the panel members were willing to take the Fox host's bait on anything. Not even when she equivocated Rubio's response to another that Obama gave on the same question. The panel was so against the intended narrative that I'm shocked that Fox News let it air.

This was so fascinating to me that I thought I'd share it here...

 

[nemesiss]

i suspect that they didn't expect this outcome, i would say this is the type of folks people like dawkins like to debate because of their honesty contrary to types like william lane craig. Though it seemed megan tried to steer the talk to the direction of the right wing, the guest didn't budge and remain true to their words.
It was interesting to see that the people of faith embraced science and didn't try to invent true.

A reason why fox might decide to air it, may be to appear more center looking rather then batshit crazy.

 

[bluejatheist]

Those guys were great, they need to be on more often especially the Rabbi.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

i suspect that they didn't expect this outcome, i would say this is the type of folks people like dawkins like to debate because of their honesty contrary to types like william lane craig.

It's funny you should mention Dawkins because the priest, Jonathan Morris, has spoken with Dawkins before:



Jonathan Morris is a regular religious contributor to Fox News. In case you're too busy to watch the clip, he brought out the tired old claim that Hitler was an atheist and followed atheist doctorine and defended that claim even after being corrected...

Though it seemed megan tried to steer the talk to the direction of the right wing, the guest didn't budge and remain true to their words.
It was interesting to see that the people of faith embraced science and didn't try to invent true.

After the whole Galileo thing, I think the Catholic Church is very reluctant to contradict science too much...

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

I can explain why it was aired, this segment was filmed live. If this was prerecorded, I doubt this segment would have made it onto Fox News.

After the election, everyone keeps talking about how disconnected Fox News is with reality, and this segment highlights that. They invited a Rabbi and a catholic Priest onto their show without realizing that both of those religions are fine with evolutionary theory. I understand that they needed to have a catholic Priest on since Sen. Rubio proclaims to be a catholic. However, if they wanted to spice this section up, they could have had an evangelical Christian or an Orthodox Jew come on the show to take the creationist side. The fact that they did not realize this before setting up this segment goes to show how disconnected they are from reality.

Megan Kelly (the host) is a good example of someone who is vacuumed sealed into Fox News's spin on the world. She is a catholic, yet (at least it seemed at the end of the segment) that she did not know that it was okay to accept deep time and evolution as a catholic. Does she not know of Pope Pius XII's Humani Generis or Pope John Paul II speech before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1996?

It amazes me how insolated the viewers of Fox News are from the real world. It also amused me to see their bubble burst on election night. I hope that will lead many people away from Fox News, but studying cults show us that the failure of a big prediction, such as election night, usually reinforces the beliefs already held.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

I can explain why it was aired, this segment was filmed live. If this was prerecorded, I doubt this segment would have made it onto Fox News.

I don't know if it was filmed live or not but what we've all watched on the posted link is clearly an archived recording so while I find your theory interesting, I don't think it can be quite right...

After the election, everyone keeps talking about how disconnected Fox News is with reality, and this segment highlights that. They invited a Rabbi and a catholic Priest onto their show without realizing that both of those religions are fine with evolutionary theory. I understand that they needed to have a catholic Priest on since Sen. Rubio proclaims to be a catholic. However, if they wanted to spice this section up, they could have had an evangelical Christian or an Orthodox Jew come on the show to take the creationist side. The fact that they did not realize this before setting up this segment goes to show how disconnected they are from reality.

First, I must say that it's a sad exaggeration to say that these religions are "fine" with it. They are fine with it in the sense that they don't feel it undermines their religion. However, they're also fine with their followers believing in Young Earth Creationism, as many Catholics do (I'm not so familiar with Judaism), even priests. They consider it a non-issue of their faith, either way...


Second, it's hard to believe that Fox didn't know what they were getting. Interviewing panel members is standard procedure in this kind of journalism. I doubt that Fox News is any more unaware of itself than The Daily Show. They are in the business of making money in the powerfully niche market of conservative entertainment...

Megan Kelly (the host) is a good example of someone who is vacuumed sealed into Fox News's spin on the world. She is a catholic, yet (at least it seemed at the end of the segment) that she did not know that it was okay to accept deep time and evolution as a catholic. Does she not know of Pope Pius XII's Humani Generis or Pope John Paul II speech before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1996?

It did seem this way to me too, which just puzzles me more. At the very end, she said "I still don't know what I'm supposed to believe." Didn't Father Morris just tell you?! It's okay to respect the findings of science and still be Catholic! Is it that she's not allowed to respect the findings of science on Fox News?

It amazes me how insolated the viewers of Fox News are from the real world. It also amused me to see their bubble burst on election night. I hope that will lead many people away from Fox News, but studying cults show us that the failure of a big prediction, such as election night, usually reinforces the beliefs already held.

I still don't understand the burst bubble. I also don't understand the various postmortems by conservatives. For example, Senator Rubio thinks the GOP are just bad at communicating how their values are Latino values... and apparently doesn't see how immigrants should be turned off by the Republican Party...

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

First, I must say that it's a sad exaggeration to say that these religions are "fine" with it. They are fine with it in the sense that they don't feel it undermines their religion. However, they're also fine with their followers believing in Young Earth Creationism, as many Catholics do (I'm not so familiar with Judaism), even priests. They consider it a non-issue of their faith, either way...

Having it as a non-issue is a huge step, and a step in the right direction for any religion. I would rather have a church claim that things such as evolution, abortion, gay marriage, etc"¦ were non-issues than have them pick a side. Otherwise, the pastors and priests seem to actively attack the side they disagree with, which influences a number of people in their congregation. The active opposition to evolution from evangelical Christians is what makes the Bible belt such a problem for biology teachers. Whereas, a segment of the U.S., the southwest, which is just as religious, does not have nearly as many problems with creationism because their churches (Catholicism) does not oppose evolution. However, both segments have problems with gay marriage and abortion.

Second, it's hard to believe that Fox didn't know what they were getting. Interviewing panel members is standard procedure in this kind of journalism. I doubt that Fox News is any more unaware of itself than The Daily Show. They are in the business of making money in the powerfully niche market of conservative entertainment...

I find it funny that you think Fox News has anything to do with journalism. I also found it hilarious that you compared Fox News to The Daily Show, the former claims to be a news organization and the latter openly admits that it is a comedy program. Thus, Fox News being as unaware of anything as The Daily Show is not a real excuse. However, you are right, They are in the business of making money in the powerfully niche market of conservative entertainment... and to this end, they construct narratives and not news. One example of this can be found here, and here is when reality burst that bubble. That YouTube channel has several examples of Fox News constructing narratives and not reporting news. Furthermore, this goes to what I was trying to say and that is Fox News has constructed a narrative for the evolution/creationism controversy (i.e. evolution = atheism = liberalism and creationism = religion = conservatism). Moreover, not only have they constructed this narrative, they bought into it and thus ended up with a panel like this, where that narrative did not come true.

It did seem this way to me too, which just puzzles me more. At the very end, she said "I still don't know what I'm supposed to believe." Didn't Father Morris just tell you?! It's okay to respect the findings of science and still be Catholic! Is it that she's not allowed to respect the findings of science on Fox News?

I say this has more to do with her buying into the narrative Fox News is selling of evolution = atheism = liberalism.

I still don't understand the burst bubble. I also don't understand the various postmortems by conservatives. For example, Senator Rubio thinks the GOP are just bad at communicating how their values are Latino values... and apparently doesn't see how immigrants should be turned off by the Republican Party...

What I am talking about is how Fox News kept saying that the race for the white house was close and it would come down to the wire. However, in reality, Romney never had a chance and anyone that was actually following the polls could see that. Election night was an example of the narrative Fox News constructed falling apart all around them. It was wonderful watching Fox News that night.

I also do not understand the postmortems by conservatives. They are a mystery.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Having it as a non-issue is a huge step, and a step in the right direction for any religion. I would rather have a church claim that things such as evolution, abortion, gay marriage, etc"¦ were non-issues than have them pick a side. Otherwise, the pastors and priests seem to actively attack the side they disagree with, which influences a number of people in their congregation. The active opposition to evolution from evangelical Christians is what makes the Bible belt such a problem for biology teachers. Whereas, a segment of the U.S., the southwest, which is just as religious, does not have nearly as many problems with creationism because their churches (Catholicism) does not oppose evolution. However, both segments have problems with gay marriage and abortion.

While I agree that indifference is better than active opposition, they could denounce it as folly and a distraction but they don't... probably because they don't want to turn away potential followers. Why shrink our congregation for the sake of reality? Hell, for all we know, their indifference could be for the reverse: they don't want to turn away scientifically minded followers and shrink their attendance...

Second, it's hard to believe that Fox didn't know what they were getting. Interviewing panel members is standard procedure in this kind of journalism. I doubt that Fox News is any more unaware of itself than The Daily Show. They are in the business of making money in the powerfully niche market of conservative entertainment...

I find it funny that you think Fox News has anything to do with journalism. I also found it hilarious that you compared Fox News to The Daily Show, the former claims to be a news organization and the latter openly admits that it is a comedy program. Thus, Fox News being as unaware of anything as The Daily Show is not a real excuse. However, you are right, They are in the business of making money in the powerfully niche market of conservative entertainment... and to this end, they construct narratives and not news. One example of this can be found here, and here is when reality burst that bubble. That YouTube channel has several examples of Fox News constructing narratives and not reporting news. Furthermore, this goes to what I was trying to say and that is Fox News has constructed a narrative for the evolution/creationism controversy (i.e. evolution = atheism = liberalism and creationism = religion = conservatism). Moreover, not only have they constructed this narrative, they bought into it and thus ended up with a panel like this, where that narrative did not come true.

Oh, c'mon. Did you want me to use scare quotes? "Journalism."

Why not compare Fox News to The Daily Show? Yes, one admits that it's a comedy show while the other pretends to be "fair and balanced" but that's just part of the narrative. Both Fargo and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre pretend to be true stories but I doubt that the producers of either film are unaware that they were producing fiction. It's hard to believe that Fox News has built this narrative and then suddenly forget that they built it...

It did seem this way to me too, which just puzzles me more. At the very end, she said "I still don't know what I'm supposed to believe." Didn't Father Morris just tell you?! It's okay to respect the findings of science and still be Catholic! Is it that she's not allowed to respect the findings of science on Fox News?

I say this has more to do with her buying into the narrative Fox News is selling of evolution = atheism = liberalism.

How can you tell? We both agree that they must adhere to the "faith is better than science" narrative so even if she hadn't personally bought into it, she would still have to pretend that she has...

I still don't understand the burst bubble. I also don't understand the various postmortems by conservatives. For example, Senator Rubio thinks the GOP are just bad at communicating how their values are Latino values... and apparently doesn't see how immigrants should be turned off by the Republican Party...

What I am talking about is how Fox News kept saying that the race for the white house was close and it would come down to the wire. However, in reality, Romney never had a chance and anyone that was actually following the polls could see that. Election night was an example of the narrative Fox News constructed falling apart all around them. It was wonderful watching Fox News that night.

I also do not understand the postmortems by conservatives. They are a mystery.

Fox News only kept saying that because they would lose viewers if they hadn't. Conservatives (maybe even just people in general) don't want to hear how they're going to lose and Fox News is in the business of making money so they just tell the people what they want to hear. The same goes for the post election "meltdown." If you've build up a narrative that you're going to win and then you don't, you have to respond to that somehow. Their viewership at this point comes from commiseration...

Now that I think about it, all the post-election fallout makes sense from this perspective. You want to give your audience reasons for the election that will make them want to come back to hear more of what you have to say. After all, if the "news" you tell them (are you really going to insist I use these scare quotes?) is going to offend them, they'll just tune in to another source that will offend them less. That's lost business. That's a loss of money. Fox News is in the business of making money... and they're very good at it!