A question on national health care to those who have it.

[darthrender2010]

Ok, so my mom just made this radical claim that in countries with government health care like in Canada and most of Europe (to my limited knowledge anyway) the elderly are not cared for. That they are "turned away to live in misery for the rest of their lives". I'd like to know if this is just her being the same old conservative lying bitch she always is, or if this claim is true.

 

[Shapeshifter]

Not true. :roll:

 

[darthrender2010]

her response;

"In the UK the elderly aren't treated the same, some can't get hip replacements and after they reach a certain age it's nearly impossible to get medical treatment."

I'd ask for a response to that, but I'd just like to know the truth, I have officially given up on that brainwashed ditto drone.

 

[Shapeshifter]

Do some research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_health_care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)

 

[irmerk]

My God, Shapeshifter is pretty damn helpful, is he not?

I would not know, being a resident of the U.S. However, I have come to understand that these formulas dictating who gets what is more of a priority list. Along with this, those countries still have private health care of which you can pay for the procedure the public one will not provide for. Again, this is just what I have understood so far and may not be right at all.

 

[Shapeshifter]

I would not know, being a resident of the U.S.

Yes you would because of the internet.

Along with this, those countries still have private health care of which you can pay for the procedure the public one will not provide for.

...which is exactly what my first link "Two-Tier-healthcare" describes.

Again, this is just what I have understood so far and may not be right at all.

Yes you are.

 

[Otokogoroshi]

I bet she also thinks that in Canada people get turned down for required treatments because of long wait times to get them!!!


I've also found that to be bullshit (from the research I've done) but Fox News and others like to keep repeating that line.

 

[Josan]

Here in Norway the elderly are cared for very well.

 

[darthrender2010]

Do some research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_health_care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)

I've done my research, but things aren't always how they should be, take communism for example. excellent idea, not too good in the actual implementation. I was just wondering if those actually from the countries could give an account being that they would be the ones who have elderly relatives in this system and would know how they are treated.

 

[COMMUNIST FLISK]

hey hey dont be dragging me into this :lol:

 

[darthrender2010]

hey hey dont be dragging me into this :lol:

 

[COMMUNIST FLISK]

in relation to the topic, there have been quite alot of scandals involving homes for the elderly where careworkers have abused/robbed/ neglected those in thier care. though im not sure if they are run by the nhs.
the nhs is a good system on paper, but its run by a money hungry privacy invading fraudulent government so it doesn't really work.

 

[richi1173]

Just to add to the discussion on private vs. public health-care.

I'm currently insured in a state run health-care program called Florida Kidcare - although I'm two months shy of turning 19. Its excellent, thats all I can say. I only pay a 10 dollar deductible for emergency room services or 5 dollars to see a specialist. Rarely is a medication not covered by the insurance and labs are included.

That downside is that they chose my doctor for me, but hes great so Im not that bothered by it. I wish I could keep it, but two months from now Im going to be dropped =[.

The monthly payment depends on your level of income.

If you are low income and want to put you children in an excellent health insurance program, Kidcare is the way to go in Florida.

Some of my friends who are economically better off have private insurance, which to my knowledge is the same quality as the public one.

 

[Homunclus]

As far as I know the biggest problem we have with the elderly around here in Portugal is long wanting periods to get stuff like wheelchairs.

And there are also some complains that meds are too expensive for them since many of them have very low income... then again I think a recent law passed that make generics free for them

the biggest problems aren't health related, the biggest problems are abandonment and isolation

 

[yarps]

There's a general point about health care schemes, that is related to the question originally posed here.

Opponents of national health care plans like to claim that it will lead to a rationing of health care, with the decisions made by "faceless bureaucrats" rather than by the patient and doctor.

They are right, of course. Any system of health care will lead to rationing, since resources are finite and potential demands not. And it is also true that at least some of those decisions will be made by people other than the patient and doctor.

But that is also true of privatised health care schemes. Health Insurance companies, like all insurance companies, make a profit by paying out on as few claims as possible.

I'm not really an expert in this area, so let me finish with my personal, unscientific experiences. I'm originally from the UK, but have lived in the US for the last few years. Despite the fact that I have a very good health insurance plan, I prefer the UK system.

 

[Jotto999]

Well, I live in Ontario, Canada, and when my grandparents need medical treatment they get it right away. My grandfather is an elderly Hungarian immigrant and even he still gets treatment right away. My grandmother has had many parts of her body (including hip) replaced, and gets all the treatment she needs. My grandfather has a pacemaker, and has had a few surgeries in the last few years for his heart. They have never waited for treatment, ever.

Your mother sounds like a complete imbecile. Tell her to do some research or shut the fuck up. Canada's healthcare isn't perfect, but it's still pretty good.

in relation to the topic, there have been quite alot of scandals involving homes for the elderly where careworkers have abused/robbed/ neglected those in thier care. though im not sure if they are run by the nhs.
the nhs is a good system on paper, but its run by a money hungry privacy invading fraudulent government so it doesn't really work.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "doesn't really work"? It seems to work here. Pretty good actually.

 

[pointyhairedhumanist]

Your mother sounds like a complete imbecile. Tell her to do some research or shut the fuck up.

No, don't tell her that. Tell her what she wants to hear. Say that Australia's public health care has an 11 month waiting list for maternity services.

In all seriousness, the Australian public health care system is not ideal. The best doctors go to the US where better wages are paid, and waiting lists for some services are pretty long. Still, the public system is sufficiently good that the previous government spent a fair deal of effort encouraging people into the private system.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

As far as I know the biggest problem we have with the elderly around here in Portugal is long wanting periods to get stuff like wheelchairs.

And there are also some complains that meds are too expensive for them since many of them have very low income... then again I think a recent law passed that make generics free for them

the biggest problems aren't health related, the biggest problems are abandonment and isolation

Great to see that there are fellow Portuguese in here. Anyways.
In Portugal there is no problem of not getting necessary health care, such situation would be unthinkable.
When it comes to elderly, they are not only taken care of, they are in fact the majority of the hospital population, not only because of age related health problems but because the elderly get any excuse to be dumped there to avoid isolations and many are dumped there. They don't have health problems that need to be taken care of, it is just a social problem.

There have been scandals involving homes for the elderly, but homes for elderly are not part of the public health service (as they are not medicaly institution) and the institution involved in those scandals were ilegal.

There are some waithing lists for some non urgent medical procedures that do take some time to be taken in the public hospital (you could do it in the private sector if you whish to) generaly due to shortage of proffessionals of the speciality and the sheer number of aplicants. Which is not really a negative thing once you look at it, if the procedures were paid the whaiting list wold be shorter, not because the system would be some how magically better, but simply because the people can not afford to have those procedure and so they are not getting any care period (and people that don't have them, do not take time).
But whaiting lists are being taken care of by new legislation and incentives. Portugal is not particularly rich country and the quality of the services is bellow the average in the Euro Zone (if Portugal as few problems, other countrys have even less problems, and they also have socialized health services), but none of the less it beats the crap out of the US quality of Health any day.

 

[darthrender2010]

Tell her what she wants to hear. Say that Australia's public health care has an 11 month waiting list for maternity services.

lol

And yeah, my mum is a proud "Hannitized ditto head" and as such listens to the neocon talk show hosts at least 3 hours a day if not more. It shouldn't surprise you that she thinks that the effect we have on the environment isn't vastly harmful or that CO2 isn't the cause of most of the warming over the past 20 years, or that Obama is a socialist who is out to destroy the entire country.

Thanks for all the input guys, my suspicions have been confirmed.