A few deconversion questions:

[The Felonius Pope]

a) When I finally gave up religion entirely I was a practicing Buddhist.

Do you happen to be of Asian descent?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Dogma's Demise, GeologyJack, Noth, routaran, thanks.

Honestly I don't remember all because I didn't just read one source. But some of the first I came across were: EvilBible and Bogus Beyond Belief.

Interesting; do you remember whether you tried to defend Christianity for a while (e.g., getting into debates, etc.), or not?

Honestly I never really cared much for who made the argument, a concept is valid no matter where it originates from.

I agree, of course, but sometimes I remember when I see a very compelling case, or a particularly bad one that confuses many people, etc., so I was asking just in case.

At first it was largely the 'problem of pain/suffering' that led me away from Christianity. Even now, after having read so much more and understand so much more, I still haven't come across a half-decent Christian explanation that would have satisfied me then.

Interesting. Instead of the specific actions of the biblical god, it was the problem of suffering first...

Arguments that, so to say, 'helped me on the way' were moral arguments, historical arguments (unreliability of biblical events), geology (wtf Noah's arc? and evolution),

I've got a couple of questions:
1) When it comes to moral arguments, were they specific moral arguments against the biblical god, or generic Problem of Evil arguments?

2) Did you run into theistic objections to moral arguments based on metaethical arguments for theism? (i.e., claims that there is no basis for morality without God, so allegedly you're implicitly assuming that God exists if you make a moral argument, etc.).

 

[televator]

Catholicism was my poison and "no" to the second question. It was actually the questions I posed to other religious people, long before I truly had a sense of what atheism was, that set me on the path to the dark side. :twisted:

 

[Noth]

I've got a couple of questions:
1) When it comes to moral arguments, were they specific moral arguments against the biblical god, or generic Problem of Evil arguments?

I'd say both. It may be that I didn't view it like that then, but with hindsight my objections from morality towards the biblical god extended as a general viewpoint towards all other gods as well. The Christian god was merely the catalyst as that was the specific god I was moving away from.

2) Did you run into theistic objections to moral arguments based on metaethical arguments for theism? (i.e., claims that there is no basis for morality without God, so allegedly you're implicitly assuming that God exists if you make a moral argument, etc.).

No, I only encountered those later in life on the interwebs . I must say that, knowing how my mind worked when I was that age, I would have found these objections laughable at best - as I do now.

My specific church, btw, held a very predeterministic point of view. According to our doctrine, all actions were already known to God and it was decided who would enter the kingdom of heaven and who wouldn't.
This specific belief I had already discarded years before my deconversion. I was not alone in my family to reach that conclusion. One of my older brothers went from protestant to semi-evangelical after fundamental disagreements with his church at the time. A pity (for me) he didn't follow his doubts and scepticism further.

 

[Vanlavak]

I tiptoed from Christianity over to Theravada Buddhism. I believe that if there is a god, he is far too integrated into our reality or far too removed to be of a concern. The arguments did indeed help, as well as maturing up in my personal live to challenge things that don't hold water in modern society.

 

[The Felonius Pope]

Catholicism was my poison and "no" to the second question. It was actually the questions I posed to other religious people, long before I truly had a sense of what atheism was, that set me on the path to the dark side.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Interesting; do you remember whether you tried to defend Christianity for a while (e.g., getting into debates, etc.), or not?

I was never in that position of defending (or trying to defend) Christianity for a while. I had never been this fundamentalist Christian anyway and by the time I was 15-16 I was already having some doubts even without being in contact with other atheists. There was simply no rational defense I could make, I had always been taught it's a matter of faith and that was slowly not working for me anymore. Now I did check out some apologetics but they were simply impossible to take seriously with their bogus attempts at proving God "rationally".

Plus I was looking back at concepts like original sin, flood, the slaughter of the first born in Egypt, Hell. Re-examining them, I found them to be entirely morally indefensible and contradictory to the idea of a "loving, all-wise, all-powerful God". But that was not all, the Bible itself contained even more absurdities, things that I never knew were there. I mean stuff like the world's most righteous man (Noah) punishing a grandson and his entire generation because his son saw him naked LOL! WTF? I mean I just couldn't keep on believing this nonsense. Our societies have progressed to a point where we recognize human rights, we have fields like psychology and neuroscience that can explain why humans "sin" and it has nothing to do with "The Fall" or "the devil tempting you", we have cosmology and evolution that completely destroy the Genesis creation account beyond reconciliation, we know rainbows exists due to light refracting, not some magical thing put up there at some point.

Still, deconversion wasn't instant, I gradually switched to deism, to agnosticism, to full blown atheism. There were even moments when I would pray to God to reveal himself to me.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

televator, Vanlavak, Noth, The Felonius Pope, Dogma's Demise, thanks.

The arguments did indeed help, as well as maturing up in my personal live to challenge things that don't hold water in modern society.

Do you remember which arguments (some of them)?

 

[The Felonius Pope]

televator, Vanlavak, Noth, The Felonius Pope, Dogma's Demise, thanks.

You're quite welcome. Always nice to have some decency on the interwebs.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

televator, Vanlavak, Noth, The Felonius Pope, Dogma's Demise, thanks.

You're quite welcome. Always nice to have some decency on the interwebs.

Thanks (though you've not seen me debate theists :twisted: )

 

[The Felonius Pope]

Now I want to see you debate theists! :twisted:

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Now I want to see you debate theists! :twisted:

I'm actually kind of retiring from debating, I'm afraid.
I might still (briefly) post in one or two ongoing debates, but I'm not planning to participate in new ones for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Felonius Pope]

How come?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Some stuff in meatspace I'm going to focus on; maybe someday I'll debate on line again,

I reckon I should have said 'you didn't see me debate theists', not to give the impression I was planning to do so again.