A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q's

[codarob94]

Alright so i was thinking about this while i was writing my month long blog.

I challenge anyone on here. ANYONE, to refute my fathers statements. I know it will be easy, but heres the thing. Im going to post my questions to him, im going to post his answers, and then my challenge for anyone is to analyze the ignorant statements, tear them to shreds and provide me with simple combacks to these answer in the hopes that i can accomplish the goal that i set out on at the beginning of my month long blog.

There will be more than one posts worth of questions so im hoping this will span the period of time it will take me to finish my blog.

Q: If god placed planets and stars everywhere for the earth to be in the "goldilocks zone", and they never will be shifted out of place, than why can we observe stars imploding and planets being destroyed? (this is more of a question for his belief which is that everything is in its place for the earth to be where it is.)
A: Who says? We cant believe man on anything, satan is influencing them. They are lieing to us.

Q: Why is it that scientists keep finding linking fossils in the fossil record?
A: Satan is causing humans to call anything even remotley similar a "link", we cannot believe anyone but the society and gods word.

Q: Why is it that god has never ONCE spoken or interacted with modern mankind since the times of the bible?
A: Because god uses holy spirit to direct the society, and he does speak to us. Using his word the bible. And if you pray to him YOU can speak to him.


Im actually gonna let this one go, im going to write a brand new thread with some juicy information ive collected of the past two years. Will be up soon.

 

[JustBusiness17]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

Sorry man, but you can't refute crazy :?

 

[codarob94]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

i LOLD, hard. That made my day.

 

[JustBusiness17]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

i LOLD, hard. That made my day.

 

[Andiferous]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

A: Who says? We cant believe man on anything, satan is influencing them. They are lieing to us.

A: Satan is causing humans to call anything even remotley similar a "link", we cannot believe anyone but the society and gods word.

A: Because god uses holy spirit to direct the society, and he does speak to us. Using his word the bible. And if you pray to him YOU can speak to him.

It's a bit like a different language, to be honest. It's almost impossible to force someone to change their philosophy - particularly if they aren't open to evaluation.

If Satan is actively influencing science and humanity, how can any person be certain of his or her own beliefs, to the extent that they can truly say what things are true and what are lies? Of course, the answer to this will be "god told me so."

we cannot believe anyone but the society and gods word.

For the same reason, why put faith in what society says? Again, the answer is "god told me so."

Arguing with god is about as effective as arguing with an invisible Mr. Snuffleupagus.

 

[nemesiss]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

A: Satan is causing humans to call anything even remotley similar a "link"

so i guess we have to call this guy from now on; "Anything even remotely similar a"

 

[codarob94]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

I dont know if its just me, but i cant see that image and i really.. REALLY want too, haha.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

I dont know if its just me, but i cant see that image and i really.. REALLY want too, haha.

It's a picture of Link

 

[Case]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

That Satan "argument" is self-refuting. According to the same logic, he (and all JW) could be influenced by "Satan".
Therefore, if you trust that argument, you cannot trust the one who made it, rendering the argument untrustworthy... you see the paradox.

But yea none of them is actually an argument or even an attempt at rational discourse, they're just things people say when they've decided to bend their perception of reality so it fits their beliefs.

I've never tried to deconvert anyone, you know... either people realize, or they don't. You can't force people to realize - trying just ends up in the activation of defense mechanisms, which is pretty much the opposite of what you'd want.

 

[Andiferous]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

That Satan "argument" is self-refuting. According to the same logic, he (and all JW) could be influenced by "Satan".
Therefore, if you trust that argument, you cannot trust the one who made it, rendering the argument untrustworthy... you see the paradox.

But yea none of them is actually an argument or even an attempt at rational discourse, they're just things people say when they've decided to bend their perception of reality so it fits their beliefs.

I've never tried to deconvert anyone, you know... either people realize, or they don't. You can't force people to realize - trying just ends up in the activation of defense mechanisms, which is pretty much the opposite of what you'd want.

Indeed. I like the advice given in your other thead; if you can gain a worldview that is truly your own, you will never need to win anyone's approval for it, and you won't necessarily feel the need to convert people. To do that, sometimes you just have to accept that it's a solitary kind of ambition, and you can choose whether or not to share it with anyone else.

 

[ExplorerAtHeart]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

As long as reality is reality and i can have my access to reality im fine. Id rather accept the universe as it is (shown by evidence) than persist in delusion.

 

[Mapp]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

If he's starting from a position that man can't know anything because Satan is actively working to mislead us, then how can he state with any certainty that God exists? Based on his point of view the only thing one could know for certain is that we're being actively manipulated by a cosmic, evil being. Of course, it's a ludicrous assertion with nothing behind it but one man's crazy assertions, but it's at some point his own lunacy is going to bite him in the ass.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

If god placed planets and stars everywhere for the earth to be in the "goldilocks zone", and they never will be shifted out of place, than why can we observe stars imploding and planets being destroyed? (this is more of a question for his belief which is that everything is in its place for the earth to be where it is.)
A: Who says? We cant believe man on anything, satan is influencing them. They are lieing to us.

Refer him to the article in the Awake! of March 22 1992, page 5, entitled The Universe,Some Secrets Unlocked, in which the Society acknowledges nebulae, star clusters, the basic workings of a star, red giants and supernovae. Then ask him: "So, seeing as we actually see all these things happening, as stated here..." <repeat question>.

Q: Why is it that scientists keep finding linking fossils in the fossil record?
A: Satan is causing humans to call anything even remotley similar a "link", we cannot believe anyone but the society and gods word.

Yeah, this one is just basically denialism from the Society. Maybe you could tell him that every fossil is a link. And that he is a link between you and his parents. That's all I can give you, though.

Q: Why is it that god has never ONCE spoken or interacted with modern mankind since the times of the bible?
A: Because god uses holy spirit to direct the society, and he does speak to us. Using his word the bible. And if you pray to him YOU can speak to him.

He's dodging the question. Even way back when God had prophets, and even when Jesus was there, God was a pretty active character with his voices booming through temples, etc. So God is not stopped by the presence of a mouthpiece.

 

[Exmortis]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

I used to find it super fun to mess with religious peoples ethics and say "How can god be all good and yet promote ethernal torture in hell? Even a life time of murder cannot enen begin to justifly an ethernity of horrible torture."

I also like to bring innocent bystanders in " Also, why would god send an innocent to be punished for ethernity just because that person does not believe in him? By that logic if a young child, perhaps one brought up in another culture, were to die in a fire he/she would be tortured for all ethernity because he/she didn't believe in god. That isn't punishment, it is aimless, pointless torture. Your god is sadistic, cruel and more interested in satisflying his own ego then protecting what is good, fair and right."

However, now they have changed their religion, changing what hell actually is. Now apparently hell is means to being seperate from god.

How can these people put such faith in a ideology that cannot present even a shred of evidence for itself and changes it's entire structure in order to evade a flaw?

Maybe it is true... the general public consists mainly of idiots and assholes...

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

I used to find it super fun to mess with religious peoples ethics and say "How can god be all good and yet promote ethernal torture in hell? Even a life time of murder cannot enen begin to justifly an ethernity of horrible torture."

Jehovah's Witnesses - which Codarob's parents are - don't believe in hell. They believe that all those who are judged by God to be unworthy will be destroyed and that's that. They believe that dead = dead.

 

[Nautyskin]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

When I was a kid and stumped my old man, he'd say 'arghh' and walk out of the room.

I'm not sure the results are going to be too different in this case.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

I'm not sure the results are going to be too different in this case.

Well, the results, as far as I know, is that Codarob is being kept busy with religious stuff and chores. They made him uninstall Skype and they make him go to bed at 10 PM. That's their response as far as I know. And less concretely, he left me a message that shit is seriously hitting the fan, though he feels better equipped to deal with the situation than he did before he signed up here.

 

[Exmortis]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

Jehovah's Witnesses - which Codarob's parents are - don't believe in hell. They believe that all those who are judged by God to be unworthy will be destroyed and that's that. They believe that dead = dead.

Hm... now if they just changed their equation from this:


Death = Judgement (Postive actions - negative actions) = (P>N)Paradise, (N>P)Dead.

...to this:

Death = Dead

...then we could be best-est buddies!

 

[AndromedasWake]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

A: Who says? We cant believe man on anything, satan is influencing them. They are lieing to us.

Okay. Then how does your dad know that Satan didn't invent God and religion as a means of control, or attempt to make it believable, but place a certain rule in there to ensure the damnation of all who obey it.

I mean, what if God intended humans to live a certain way, but never worship him? Satan realised he could get away with adding worship to the religion, ensuring that all worshippers would end up in Hell. It's a brilliant idea!

Apparently Satan makes every effort to tamper with the world and influence people, whereas God makes it as hard as possible for himself. Which one really is God?

I'm being facetious, but the fact that there are no non-circular answers to these sorts of questions is one of the main reasons my brain doesn't like being religious.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Re: A challenge. Using my fathers viewpoint to answer easy Q

A: Who says? We cant believe man on anything, satan is influencing them. They are lieing to us.

Okay. Then how does your dad know that Satan didn't invent God and religion as a means of control, or attempt to make it believable, but place a certain rule in there to ensure the damnation of all who obey it.
Apparently Satan makes every effort to tamper with the world and influence people, whereas God makes it as hard as possible for himself. Which one really is God?
I'm being facetious, but the fact that there are no non-circular answers to these sorts of questions is one of the main reasons my brain doesn't like being religious.

Well, the Watchtower Society is not a channel of men, but a channel of God. So we can be safe in the knowledge that we can get further Truth from them. After all, it is because of their role as the faithful and discreet slave that we got to know the Truth at all!

Yeah, not going to work. Don't you love the doublethink?