would you be dead?

[ZPrime]

So i was wondering, if we invented teleportation in the sense that an object was broken down, analyzed, and had the blue prints sent to another machine that then assembled them in to an EXACT copy of the object ...... if you teleported a human would that be the same human? Or would that person die, and another person with the exact memory and personally be made? Assuming that different atoms where being used when re-assembling, but let me know if you think that would even make a difference.

 

[P3t4rd]

Has anyone seen a movie called the prestige?

As the teleportation you describes seems it's from star trek, as far as I'm aware, you die, but it's painless and you have no idea it happened. As far as your aware you just appear somewhere else. In star trek: the next generation this is shown several times:
In Second Chances, it is revealed that when riker got transported earlier in his career, they failed to destroy the original creating two copies (see thomas riker).
In anothet TNG episode called relics (which also features a dyson sphere) scotty from the original series's information is stored in a computer for him to be re-created in the future.

Either they would have to physically move you to another place, or copy you and kill you. I don't think it would make any difference to the personality.

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

My understanding, although this understanding could be viciously incorrect, is that we are all constantly recycling and changing on a cellular/molecular level. (A biologist can confirm this or deny it.) So the problem becomes similar to that chestnut of a philosophical question - if you have an axe, and replace the handle, and then the head, and keep doing this over a few decades . . . is it the same axe?

Fortunately for us, axes can't think so the question is a bit moot in relation to the OP. But since we are changed, piece by tiny piece at a time, all the time, I don't see too much of a difference though.

However.

Replacing different bits of something would still lead, philosophically, to the same item (as in the axe example) as you assimilate new along with the old. It's gradual. So our cells dying and being replaced is more similar to that. The equivalent to teleportation would be throwing away the old axe and buying a new one from the same company - but if it's a completely identical axe, then what's changed?

Meh. If you're identical and your personality remains unchanged, then nothing has changed.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

This is the ethernal philosofical question of personal identity, who are you? Your ideas or the construct of your body?
One thing is clear, preserv the brain and we preserv you, but the question still remain are you your brain or your taughts? We may never know the answer to this question.

 

[P3t4rd]

but the question still remain are you your brain or your taughts? We may never know the answer to this question.

I'm no neuro-scientist, but your thoughts must be stored physically, mustn't they? Unless you beleive they are some sort of energy, or spirit?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I'm no neuro-scientist, but your thoughts must be stored physically, mustn't they? Unless you beleive they are some sort of energy, or spirit?

Let me put it this way. Imagin that you and I keap our brains but all my taughts were swaped with yours so that your brain has all my ideas and believes that he is me, while my brain has all your ideas and thinks that he is you. Who are you?

 

[P3t4rd]

Let me put it this way. Imagin that you and I keap our brains but all my taughts were swaped with yours so that your brain has all my ideas and believes that he is me, while my brain has all your ideas and thinks that he is you. Who are you?

If we swapped our consciousnesses our identity and personality would move with the consciousness. We would just look different. But would it be possible to rebuild a persons brain thoughts and memorys accurately out of different atoms?, theoretically, we obviously don't have the necessary technology today.

 

[GoodKat]

Has anyone seen a movie called the prestige?

I was weirded out for weeks.

A star trek style teleporter would almost certainly eliminate whatever could be defined as "you". An exact copy of X is not X.

I sometimes wonder if the "me" that went to sleep last night still exists.

 

[Zylstra]

Meh. If you're identical and your personality remains unchanged, then nothing has changed.

Except that you no longer exist

 

[Grimlock]

From what i understand of Star Trek what they do is split you into molecules, then send those particles along with the information on how to reassemble those particles to another ship, where the person is reassembled.

It,´s something that requires a lot of energy and exact information, and if you haven,´t got that energy well take a look at Star Trek the motion picture.
They didn,´t have enough energy and the a glitch in the system caused a mis-assembly, so the two persons die in excruciating pain and star command confirmed when they said: "What we got back didn,´t live very long"

Basically if the information is corrupted you have almost zero % chance of reassemble the person again.

Another example of this could be Star Trek Yoyager the episode was called Tuvix where Nelix and Tuvok was fused together into a new being called Tuvix.

Again what they are doing in Star Trek isn,´t disintegrating the original and create an exact copy of that person on the other end, what they are doing is splitting a person into their individual molecules and sending them to the other place where they are reassembled.

So in that sense i wouldn,´t say you die as the original body isn,´t destroyed but merely split and then reassembled.

 

[salko7]

Meh. If you're identical and your personality remains unchanged, then nothing has changed.

Except that you no longer exist

well the person will be unchanged and they will exist , they exist as themselves to others but do they exist as themselves to their own self ?

the brain (as the rest of the body) is allways changing in the precess of transport this needs to stop to copy it more effectively with 0% errors, but that will kill the person (i might be wrong here i need to read about "brain restart" or when people faint for a bit and then wake up)
but lets say that we can transport a person safely with no errors... whats let is their thoughts and they can be transported and the person as said above will be themselves with the same thoughts , but we have to ask will they "know" who they are or feel like they just started to exist now ?

well their memory will be transported too , meaning they will know they existed before that moment , it just comes back to the idea of "soul"
and well a soul isn't something i believe in (maybe some of you do?) , so i see no reason why a person will die in any way other then error in the transfer of information or an error in building the person , the person will have the same thoughts will live the same as they were lived before the transfer.

 

[Zylstra]

salko!.. seriously... quote button... use it...

 

[P3t4rd]

Again what they are doing in Star Trek isn,´t disintegrating the original and create an exact copy of that person on the other end, what they are doing is splitting a person into their individual molecules and sending them to the other place where they are reassembled.

So in that sense i wouldn,´t say you die as the original body isn,´t destroyed but merely split and then reassembled.

Then how do you account for the two Rikers in second chance, or what happened to Scottys particles in relics for all the time his infomation was stored in the transporter, and if they can physically move the particles, why don't they move the person, and how do they transport the particles through walls?
I think the machine in the transporter rooms on star ships are basically complex replicators, and information receiversm, as well as disintegrators.

 

[Josan]

My understanding, although this understanding could be viciously incorrect, is that we are all constantly recycling and changing on a cellular/molecular level.

I am no expert myself, but I belive in a 7 year period your entire body has been remade, every singel cell. While this might be slightly wrong, it is very interesting.

Steven Pinker presents a similar problem in his book "How the Mind Works". He says, if you take a microscopic electronic device that works EXACTLY like a neruo transmitter in your mind, and you replace one of your braincells with this device, you will not sense any difference as the device does exactly the same as the brain cell would. Would you still be you? You have millions and millions (pulling numbers out of my ass here, but you get the point!) of normal cells, and one singel device. But, how if you change one more - and then one more? What if you keep doing this until you're entire brain is replaced. When would you stop being you? And more importantly - why?

 

[Grimlock]

Then how do you account for the two Rikers in second chance, or what happened to Scottys particles in relics for all the time his infomation was stored in the transporter, and if they can physically move the particles, why don't they move the person, and how do they transport the particles through walls?
I think the machine in the transporter rooms on star ships are basically complex replicators, and information receiversm, as well as disintegrators.

I don,´t know about the two Riker,´s since i haven,´t seen it, Relic,´s i have seen i would explain it like this:
Scotty and his crew mate (forgot his name) Dematerialized since there wasn,´t enough energy to sent the beam to a receptor (the Dyson sphere was out in the middle of NOWHERE if i remember correctly.

They remained on standby as floating particles in the system, unfortunately due to low energy Scotty,´s crew mate,´s patten on how to resembled his particles deteriorated over time and his particles scattered over time.

As for beaming through a wall well how do you contact a person standing in a closed room?? Radio waves are particles too same thing here your particles are sent to a location and the ship reassembles you, and if it,´s on to another ship that ship assembles you assuming that its voluntary.

Now for my counter argument how would you explain this then.

McCoy,´s unwillingness to beam on board (in Star Trek the motion picture) as one of the cadet,´s saying that he wanted to see how it scattered their molecules across space.
If what you say is true then he wouldn,´t say that as he would like to see how it scattered their molecules across space, since it would merely disintegrate him on the spot and then use the information to create a clone or duplicate of him on the ship?

Then there,´s the Voyager episode (forgot what it was called) where Voyager visited Nelix,´s home planet where they tried to extract the particles of his people from the atmosphere after they had been dispersed there by a weapon in a war.?
The effort failed because Voyager just couldn,´t muster enough energy to take the particles needed and separate them from atmospheres particles.
If the beaming technology works like creating an exact duplicate it would be a simple matter of creating a new individual why would Voyager even need to put up a force field to contain the particles and why would they need to extract the particles in the first place??

 

[P3t4rd]

Hmmmh I guess you're right grimlock, or at least right about those episodes. Maybe there isn't a strict way of doing it, after all they used different writers for different sotries.

 

[ApostateProphet]

So long as the resulting body produces a consciousness indistinguishable from the original then it is the original for all intent and purposes. Trying to separate the two is a distinction without a difference.